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4K: Internal TV players
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    part of 4K series

    All 4K TVs can play videos from USB flash and HDDs. Few have SD card slot.

    General categories of TV players

    • Can play only moderate bitrate FullHD material encoder using H.264 (some Chinese sets and few others), top bitrate usually 50Mbps
    • Can play FullHD and UHD H.264 with bitrate and fps restrictions, usually it is 30fps for both, 50Mbps top
    • Can play FullHD and UHD H.264 and HEVC with bitrate and fps restrictions, can be up to 60fps for HEVC

    Example of Samsung UHD player in best modern TVs

    • Can play HEVC UHD up to 60fps, 50Mbps max
    • Can play HEVC FullHD up to 30fps, 50Mbps max
    • Can play H.264 UHD and FullHD up to 30fps, 50Mbps max

    LG UHD TVs also have very similar restrictions.

    Now you also can get idea why Samsung is used specific bitrate for NX1 camera :-)

    And why you can not expect just get any raw content from your GH4 and show it to client in an instant.

  • 21 Replies sorted by
  • DrDaveDrDave

    Does the Samsung play 24p native? I have no way of testing but need a 4K TV.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Does the Samsung play 24p native? I have no way of testing but need a 4K TV

    I think yes. One thing I know that it has issue with 24p 3D movies (plays at 60fps).

    Good tip - get one of http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/8094/small-guys/p1 just check for processor (Ivy Bridge on newer)

    http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/11709/dxva2-performance-of-desktop-cpus#Item_1

    All of them can play 4K at any normal bitrate up to 50fps. Ivy Bridge chips have best DXVA module (check how much better 3770 is).

  • NickBenNickBen

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev ... http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/11709/dxva2-performance-of-desktop-cpus#Item_1

    All of them can play 4K at any normal bitrate up to 50fps. Ivy Bridge chips have best DXVA module (check how much better 3770 is).

    Isn't the huge problem whether you are actually getting 4K 60fps with 10 bit color and HDCP 2.2 to the display itself?

    I see no point in investing more for 4K with 8 bit color depth at 30-60fps due to cable or player limitations in this current crop of decoders- seems quite a short-term mess which I tried but gave up on for now...

    Likely, dedicated "4K Blu-Ray " discs properly encoded and directly connected to the TV may be the only way to ensure you are getting all the picture quality you want from a 4K TV, sad as that sounds for the next year...

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Isn't the huge problem whether you are actually getting 4K 60fps with 10 bit color and HDCP 2.2 to the display itself?

    HDCP 2.2 is used only if you play legit non-existent :-) 4K Blu Ray movie or use satellite receiver (that does not exist yet).

    Issue with 10-bit is that you really do not much need it in the end product with proper encoding.

    Idea of mass full Rec 2020 10-bit 120fps videos is, well, fantasy now. Destined to become, in best case, next DVD-Audio or SACD.

    10-bit and wide gamut, if done without artificial saturation, are very tough sell (just because 98% of the time all colors will be exactly as near 8-bit Rec 709 set) :-)

    Btw, Samsung and LG TVs properly decode HEVC 2160p60 with 10-bit color.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Btw, about modern consoles:

    PS4 do not have any media player

    Xbox one have one, but horrible, has some sound limitations, bitrate limitations, do not play 4K at all.

    Check this

    • If one or more video tracks are present, the first track will be played.
    • If one or more audio tracks are present, the first track will be played.
    • If one or more captions tracks are present, the captions will not render

    Actually, reason is pretty clear, as both companies try to sell you junk recompressed and overpriced media.

    Any cheapest Ivy Bridge or better based cheap small note with HDMI out works outstanding for any reasonable video playback, including 4K, using DXVA2.

  • DrDaveDrDave

    I made a 4K file at 62 Mbps (H.264 5.2) and it plays perfectly on the Samsung TV, but first you get a warning that it may not play properly.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    but first you get a warning that it may not play properly.

    Their manual specify top bitrate as 50Mbps. :-) You need to check actual bitrate for each of small time frames for your file. Plus their player can have some safety margin, 62mbps is not so big.

  • davjddavjd

    What about Panasonic? I spent so much time before buying a 4k tv wich would be not too expensive but not so limited in terms of media player possibilities and hdmi 2.0 connections. I ended up taking an AX800 Tv. I still don't have a Gh4 but I hope I'll not regret my choice.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    I ended up taking an AX800 Tv. I still don't have a Gh4 but I hope I'll not regret my choice.

    You can check manual, if they have player specs in it.

    Panasonic TVs are usually quite overpriced, hence not much popular.

  • DrDaveDrDave

    I'll do some further testing, but I rendered a 4K file at 100Mbps CBR and tested that the bitrate was constant. I put that on a high speed Samsung USB3 stick and played it absolutely no problem on the Samsung 4K TV. So I'm not sure what the limit is, or whether over time there will be an issue, but it looks pretty good.

  • v10tdiv10tdi

    @davjd - I have had no issues playing GH4 movies (mp4) or pics (jpg) on the AX800 using it's Media Player or DLNA app. Yes the 4K movies are very nice, but I especially like the increased screen resolution for showing pictures. The increased resolution of the 4K screen really shows high-rez photos very well.

    The 4K media player on the AX800 will not playback GH4 RAW, MOV or 4KPhoto movies. To play GH4 4KPhoto movies or MOV files, I must connect the GH4 to my A/V receiver via HDMI. FWIW - I can use the AX800 remote to control the GH4 playback (via HDMI). It's a very handy feature because I can just leave the camera over by the A/V receiver instead of having a long HDMI cable.

    At the risk of going slightly off-topic, another media that shows very well on the 4K screen is 3D.

  • tinbeotinbeo

    So there is no tv with sd slot 4k playable out there?

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @tinbeo

    By idea Panasonic's have SD slots as well as many Chinese TVs.

    Actually all you need is simple USB card reader :-)

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    I'll do some further testing, but I rendered a 4K file at 100Mbps CBR and tested that the bitrate was constant.

    Mine Samsung 4K TV just shows warnings and plays most high bitrate demos anyway.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Small addition.

    Latest Philips 4K models with Android (with HDMI 2.0) do not play 4K videos, at least ones that you can find to test.

    So, stick to LG and Samsung for now.

  • v10tdiv10tdi

    The Panasonic AX800 will play 4K video either through the SD card slot or one of the USB ports. In some quick testing I have done, the USB 3 port with USB 3 memory stick seems to do better than either the SD card slot or a USB 3 SD card reader.

  • B3GuyB3Guy

    I've playedUHD and 4K NX1 h.265 files on my Samsung U8550, They really look great.

  • karlkarl

    I've got good news and bad news on the internal player capabilities of the LG 4k OLED TV 55EG9606 I recently aquired:

    The good news: The LG 55EG9606 can replay 3840x2160p24 videos using higher bitrates than promised in its manual - it replays 100MBit/s .mp4 files as recorded by the LX100 from USB sticks just fine, using the usual complex "moving bushes in the sun" material. Earlier LG 4k TVs were failing even at half that bitrate.

    The bad news: If you intend to watch 3840x2160 still images that actually have color information for every pixel (no matter whether these are .png or .jpg files using YUV 4:4:4), the TV's internal picture viewer app will only display half of the chroma information - even if you "zoom in" to 200%. Find attached a 4k test image which, when displayed with a decent viewer, shows some text with a solid brown fill on a background that is a 1x1 checker-board pattern of red and green pixels. On the TV, both the inside and the outside of the characters will look "solid brown".

    All of the above is of course valid only for today's firmware release 03.00.73 - there have been no less than 3 updates in the past three days - 2 of "WebOS", one of the remote control firmware.

    red_green_checkers_1x1_4k.png
    3840 x 2160 - 157K
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    The bad news: If you intend to watch 3840x2160 still images that actually have color information for every pixel (no matter whether these are .png or .jpg files using YUV 4:4:4), the TV's internal picture viewer app will only display half of the chroma information - even if you "zoom in" to 200%. Find attached a 4k test image which, when displayed with a decent viewer, shows some text with a solid brown fill on a background that is a 1x1 checker-board pattern of red and green pixels. On the TV, both the inside and the outside of the characters will look "solid brown".

    What is the purpose of having color information for each pixel if you use it for viewing only?

    In monitor mode it works ok, as I know (hence for special effects and some heavy grading during viewing of zoomed parts it'll be ok). And in just viewing your eyes nature comes into play making it completely useless.

  • karlkarl

    Whether full color resolution is useless depends on how far away from the screen you watch - if you are near enough, you can of course spot the difference, at least at your eyes' point of maximum sharpness.

    Using above sample image, I can spot the difference between the "solid brown" and the red/green checker-board pattern from ~1.5m away from the TV, which is no unusual viewing distance for me (who always liked immersive, large viewing angles).

    Also, as I mentioned, the lack of color resolution becomes more apparent when zooming in with the TV viewer.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @karl

    I suggest to make scientific blind tests with real images.

    Whole point of such regular patters is to MAKE VISIBLE the difference.

    And, really, attach it to any computer or even Windows stick PC and live happily.

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