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Is there a point to shooting an indie feature film in 4K??
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  • @BurnetRhoades The GH4 is a highly compromised 4K consumer camera? Tell that to my clients who absolutely love the image and the run-n-gun shooting style that it affords.

    Wasn't your last film shot on a Canon 7D? Exactly how compromising was that camera for use on a "feature film?"

    I think you paint things with a very broad brush, the type of person who thinks whatever doesn't matter to them personally shouldn't matter to anyone else. Many on this board including myself actually take pride in the level of quality we deliver to our clients and just because we could do less and still earn a profit, doesn't mean we choose to go the route of resting on our laurels.

    It is not naive or ridiculous to make an investment in image quality and the argument of "if it isn't film, it's never going to be good enough" is just an old, tired cop-out. What you're really trying to say is you personally are uninterested in leveraging technology to produce a better product. The truth is, unless you've actually delivered in 4K you're not in a position to say exactly how the market will respond to it.

    I can tell you from first-hand experience I charge a premium for a finished 4K master and every client thus far has chosen to pay for it and knows exactly what they're getting in exchange for it. I educate them on the difference between downscaled HD and 4K and what those differences will provide them in practical features. They love the ability to grab 8 megapixel promo frames from 4K to use in their print advertising. I divert the premium I charge for a 4K deliverable to pay off my equipment investment.

    If that makes me some kind of naive fool, then I guess ignorance is bliss!!

  • Right now the argument over shooting 4K boils down to post flexibility, not delivery.

  • 4K @ lower bandwidth than a good patch for the GH2 with macroblocking all over is compromised, Tron. I'd choose to shoot less compromised 2K than 422 4K to an external recorder as well. If your clients can't tell the difference, well, more power to you. But save the marketing for the rubes.

    At the time I shot on the 7D the 5D didn't have real, stable 24P yet. 30P was out of the question. DSLR video hadn't really blown up yet. There were still more indies shooting DV or, worse, HDV. So, if you wanna be creepy and think you're going to throw something in my face you might want some meaningful context. That 7D is a piece of shit compared to the picture from a hacked GH2 but, still, it was one of the best options at the time. It was also free. I shot one of the first 24P DSLR features and co-produced one of the first 24P HDCAM features some years before that. The fuck I don't know about leveraging technology.

    Prior to that I'd also worked on dozens of films shot on actual film (including the first film that ever got an end-to-end digital IP) at a level of intimacy that actually gives me a bit more perspective on what real image quality is and I didn't say what you're implying, but I know the difference and am not in denial. A better product? LOL

  • @Ironfilm - did you have a specific camera in mind when you asked the 4k question?

  • @aaronchicago It's both, actually. Amazon and Netflix are both shooting in 4K+ to deliver in 4K today. Affordable 4K smart TVs are already available that can reliably stream the content. Direct TV just announced they will be delivering 4K on demand before the end of the year. Samsung leaked that Amazon will begin streaming their 4K "originals" this month. Even CBS just announced that they will be catering to Amazon/Hulu/Netflix

    The fact is the distribution model for content is rapidly changing and one should not handicap a film's distribution options given the rapid paradigm shift which is currently underway. The 4K content will be first in line to be picked up if it is side by side with content of comparable production quality. I could see avoiding 4K if it meant compromises would have to be made in other areas of production like sound, sets or ease of post-production but that just isn't the case anymore.

    @BurnetRhoades My point is that clients are paying more for 4K content right now and it's going to be delivered straight to TV's and devices that can read every pixel, not through some Hollywood down-rez conspiracy. Those distribution models are fast becoming history, especially for indie films. It should probably be mentioned GH2's shoot 8 bit 4:2:0 while GH4's can shoot up to 4K 10 bit 4:2:2 with an external recorder. The majority of folks cannot perceive the difference between 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 but they sure as hell can see the difference between 2K and 4K on retina displays. Either way the GH4 is covered while the GH2 is substandard and compromised according to your own criteria.

  • @mrbill yup, I have the A7s in mind.

    As am considering it as a companion (or perhaps replacement camera) for a BMCC EF / BMPCC, that I'll be shooting with as the DoP for a feature film. Because it is a vampire comedy horror, and a lot will be shot in the dark, very low light.

    As I'm going to get the Atomos Ninja Blade for myself as part of my personal gear collection, I'm also debating the merits of instead of a Ninja Blade to spend the $1k more to get a Atomos Shogun for the 4K recording it could do with the A7s.

  • If the only thing I could do with 4K is crop, pan and downsample, that alone would be worth the price of the gear. But of course, it is so much more.

  • the whole question of 4k is a difficult one…what cameras are truly 4k…(a camera has to be 6k maybe only 35mm film and a dragon camera ) and then you can always up the resolution…and where will it be projected..??? most dps shy away from 4k and their making huge budgeted films…so it's a tough question…but I would shoot in the format that is best for you creatively...

  • the whole question of 4k is a difficult one…what cameras are truly 4k…(a camera has to be 6k maybe only 35mm film and a dragon camera )

    Sometimes I want to kill people who start 10th circle of "not true SD, not true HD, not true FullHD, now 4K".
    Guys, get the fuck out of your computer with keyboard that is contagious with such mind infections.

  • @Vitaliy

    I second that motion

  • "Guys, get the fuck out of your computer with keyboard that is contagious with such mind infections."

    This is my new favourite VK quote. Somebody print some fucking T-Shirts!