@DouglasHorn if you slate each cam, then you don't have a masterclock (unless you have a clock on the slate running faster than the framerate). Maybe I'm missing something--if there is an easier way to do it I would certainly prefer that to running around with a digital clock.

@spacewig totally agree with your point on identifying clips. Since we have a written schedule that is part of the set of computer files, technically we should not need a written slate on cam, but I must admit that when re-rendering clips that are say ten years old, you sometimes scratch your head and say, wtf is this? Or if the verbal slate is sometimes difficult to understand. Also, sometimes for whatever reason you have to go off schedule. If I look at a scene, I know immediately what it is, but suppose years from now someone else has to sort it out...I guess I'll have to get my slate out of the garage.

Bass traps: I will post this in a separate topic as I have a video that goes with it. Basically, blankets make the bass (and therefore the echos) more boomy as they act like a low pass filter by rolling off the treble. But your venue may not need them. I have to say I think they work great in a big space because everyone can hear each other better. In a big venue. Blankets affect directionality, which affects imaging.

@spacewig Exactly - I will do multiple tests at location until audio perfected. Project is close but I think I have at least 2 weeks, might end up being rescheduled for 2 months. Should have enough time to perfect it. Thanks for all the advice - much appreciated.

@spacewig Good advice - will definitely test on actual location prior to day of shoot. Will reread this thread and mic challenge responses. Apologies for any redundancy - my head is still spinning from the amount of good advice - still processing new information. Keep up great work - this is a good thread. Thank you.

Slates also make identifying and naming your files (which you'll be doing on a low-budget project) that much easier to get through. I did two shorts without a slate... Never again.

@matt_gh2 Did you carefully read my (and other members) reply to your mic challenge thread? A lot of the answers you ask regarding reverb (which you call echo, though if you do a google search you'll surely find some clear explanations of the difference) are there. Also, you should reread points 6 and 7 of location sound above. You have a number of options when it comes to reverb. The first option is to go to the location in question, record your associate/friend/partner reading the lines of the script corresponding to that locaction with your sound kit (do a few takes from different distances) then LISTEN to what you've recorded later on in a quiet location free of distraction. How does it sound? Sure there'll be reverb. However, a jail is SUPPOSED to have reverb since that's how sound waves will propagate and bounce in a small room with brick/concrete walls; that's the sonic signature of that kind of pace and it would sound wierd if the reverb was missing. Furthermore, if you have shots of another location intercutting the jail scene, or your character also has scenes outside of the jail, then the reverb reinforces his/her isolation during the jail scene(s) since the sound of an empty room/garage/tunnel is something almost everyone relates to intuitively.

Where reverb becomes a problem is when two or more characters that are supposed to be in the same space have different amounts of reverb in their dialogue tracks or when there is so much reverb that it becomes difficult to understand what your character is saying. The inverse distance law tells you that the closer the mic is to your character, the less of the roomtone (which reverb is part of) you will pick up relative to the voice, i.e. try to keep the microphone as close to the actor as possible (though sound perspective should be your guiding aesthetic principle). You can also baffle your location, reread your mic challenge thread for suggestions. Forget about fixing this in post as operating with a "I'll fix it later" ethic deprives your mind of the vitality that urgency imposes on you. I can't advocate that approach to any creative undertaking. Be curious, go out and get your hands dirty with a mic and a recorder, you'll be the better off for it.

@caveport in a large production it not practical to record room tone at the end. That's because it takes time to clear the room, and also as ppl drive away you will have car noise if you are working on an open set. Easier to record room tone during a break, and you can also listen a bit to make sure the sound is what you want.

@caveport Thanks for advice - much appreciated.

@matt_gh2 Microphone pickup pattern is what to look for. Hypercardiod shotgun mics for recording at a distance or boom pole. The only other thing you can do is get the mic's as close as possible.

@Douglashorn Thanks. Any mics better than others for minimizing echoes?

@spacewig @all What do you recommend for eliminating echo from spaces that tend to produce echo? (I'm interested in techniques for both when recording and in editing.)

@spacewig, I can't thank you enough for this.

I can vent about my current project because nobody else I know is on this forum. It was shooting video of a play performance in a theater with a huge echo. Previously, I'd used a camera track and a Rode Videomic, and had decent results. But this was a special project, so I hired a sound person to rig up a professional-level sound recording. He spent hours rigging up four Sennheisers around the main stage, and a portable recorder and a few smaller, lapel-sized mikes up on an upper stage area. He gave me the tracks he recorded.

Thing is, the tracks he gave me had problems. They seemed to have been recorded at a very low level. Some of them cut out into silence for short periods. The upper-stage areas... well, when they did record, their quality was actually far clearer than the sound from the main floor. (There was still room echo, but that was never going to be eliminated anyway.)

I couldn't get that sound guy to help with the mixing, so I hired someone else. He took the first guy's tracks and managed to assemble a final that... well, it was more uniform, but it had its problems. Lots of drop-offs when the sound levels got really high, i.e., screams, bangs, etc. A personal issue came up and I had to stop working with the guy. (In his defense, he'd never mixed for video before, and his system didn't include the ability to watch the video: he was strictly sound-only. And as I said, the tracks I gave him were disappointing.)

So now I have to learn sound mixing to try to salvage something out of this. It turns out that two of the cameras captured fairly decent tracks. One camera was decent all the way through, except that it was a Canon, and had to be stopped-and-started every ten minutes or so. The other's sound levels were VERY high, with lots of peaking and cutoffs, but it got some good portions of the upper-stage area. (The end result will probably be messy as hell. But at this stage, I can live with the mess.)

Sorry to go on at this length, but the bottom line is that I have to train myself in doing location sound and be able to do it myself. Obviously, I can't just leave it up to a sound expert. So tutorials such as yours are a HUGE help, and at times like I'm facing, an encouragement. Thanks a lot; I'm looking forward to more.

This is great stuff! One thing about the gear is that I always buy three of everything instead of two, and wire everything redundantly to the mic, with a backup plan as well as a backup stereo mic. For example, using a Y cable you can split the mic into two recorders, and if a mic fails, you then have an exact replacement (the third mic you bought). If the recorder fails, since the signal is split you lose no sound at all. If you don't have that, well, then that's the very rare but total megabummer gigcrashing nightmare. If you are on a budget, use a DR 680 and mix the output down to stereo and run that into a zoom or Fostex for a stereo backup.

I also make sure that one of the recorders will function if unplugged, like the Fostex FR2LE. Some people use a UPS instead--either way, you should have plan if the power cuts out for a minute or two. You can run purely on batteries, but batteries are crappy and if they momentarily dip voltage your gear may stop. Pulling four batteries out of a Fostex, you will usually see that just before the recorder stopped you had three good batteries and one not so good one.

I always keep a small, low noise stereo mic on one of the cams as a third backup. Obviously, both this cam and the attached mic will run with their batteries for hours. It also helps with sync as it gives a wave form more similar to a recorder.

When using a slate, or clapping, make sure you do it fast, and do it three times. If the stop part of the motion is trapped between frames, it can give a misleading sync. If you repeat the process at the end of a very long take, you can average the drift out as well.

For very accurate work, in addition to the slate, a "clock pass" is a good idea. Take a numerical display clock or app with tenths (or more) of the seconds and pass it in front of the cams. You can then use these images to reconcile the clocks on the cams in post if needed.

I don't use close micing, but most people do (well, almost everyone, really), and you certainly can't go wrong with it, except for popping and sibilance. So don't do it my way :)