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GH2 Color Banding Bashing
  • Maxwell77Maxwell77
    Hi everyone,
    I had always problems with color banding with my GH2. For this reason I tried the hack. I am very disappointed that the color banding problem is still alive. I cannot use my GH2 for professional work. No way...The color banding in blue clear skies is awful. The hack was my last chance to keep this camera... The higher bitrate do not change this behaviour. Perhaps it is not possible to solve this issue. Probably the 8 Bit is the problem. Did anyone found a solution?
    Best regards, Maxwell
  • 54 Replies sorted by
  • Donnie88Donnie88

    Just to add it was exported with 5DtoRGB with ProRes 4444 - ITU-R BT .601 - 1.8 (Flatter).

    Nikon 50mm f/1.2 AI-S lens mainly used, some with Nikon 24mm f/2.8 used.

  • Donnie88Donnie88

    Damn I suffered from banding for the first time with my GH2 too - didn't even realise on set. Guess it was caused through the dimly lit location.

    A graded version can be seen here:

    password: atnt

    Shot with the 1.1 firmware update, HBR 25p, at ISO 800 mainly.

  • shianshian
    I have noticed this problem on the unhacked GH2. I shot this a week after I got my camera. You can clearly see the banding @0:10 when I rack focus on the basketball - crazy banding. This is untouched footage, captured as ProRes 4:2:2HQ in FCP. No color correction or adjustments of any kind.



    The color banding, I think, stems from a few issues.

    1) 8-Bit and 10Bit 4:2:2 have always yielded color banding for me regardless of acquisition format and equipment.

    2) 4:2:0 color space of the GH2.

    3) bitrate.

    I'll have to see how much this changes after I apply the hack, but right now, it is seriously making me rethink my GH2 (which I love) as a Feature Film camera.

  • jhoepffnerjhoepffner
    Excuse me to "come after the battle"… I just discovered the banding problem yesterday, filming the sunset from my balcony with my GH2 and discovering big banding when it come to dark marine blue. I cross tested today my GH2 beside my Canon xf300, that's day and night… No banding on the canon, perhaps it's the 422 50mb bitrate? (I heard that GH2 is only 420), perhaps the canon's MPEG-2 codec versus pana's AVCHD?
    I agree that GH2 is still fantastic for the price, the pocket size and the open-minded lens kit, but is good to know what are the limitation and for what it's the perfect tool.
    Thank you for the interesting discussion.
  • killagramkillagram
    Would a polarization filter negate some of the banding side effects?

    I've been using driftwood's GOP1 IntraPure settings and it's greatly reduced posterization, but not entirely.
  • woody123woody123
    Will the film modes @cbrandin is working on have any effect on the banding issue?

    Example: The sunset profile on the Sony NEX-5N as tested by @EOSHD.


    Can Panasonic "Film Mode" and Sony "Profile" be compared functionally, or are they dissimilar beasts?
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev
    @Maxwell77

    So, my understanding is that your goal had been to chit chat.
    And I still see no your examples.
  • Maxwell77Maxwell77
    @Mihuel
    Hey, I got my GH2 from my father and not from my mother... ;) Ha, ha... But seriously...
    I guess we can close this topic... Any further discussion will make no sense.
  • MihuelMihuel
    I read this discussion and I feel that to some child does not like the toy he got from his mother. GH2 or 5dmarkII Canon cameras are created primarily to photographing. They also have additional functions filming. If someone is able to use these functions- very well, and if it considers that it does not let you buy a film camera. You can not complain that the hammer does not fulfill the function vibrator. If you can please a woman with a hammer is good for you, but do not cry if you fail. Because it's childish.
  • otcxotcx


    pass: GH2

    Like this. But it could be corrected quite easely.
    Right camera settings (everything is auto and zoom is full)
    Lightning (light is just in bunny)
    post (no post here)
  • brianlucebrianluce
    You should learn to shoot with your GH2. Although from what it sounds like, nothing short of a Panavision Genesis will ever satisfy you.

  • otcxotcx
    If one make a product, there will always be hapy and unhapy customers. GH2 is good cam, but it is not RED.
    Hack improves cam a lot, but do not make miracles. It is pointles to say that there is a problem, if you can not show where. My friend said that GH2 is no match to canon eaven he was not ever seen or try GH2. I think he is wrong, but it is not my problem anyway. I have shoot lot of nature clips with just 14-140 lens and banding has never been a problem. Of course i can make situation wher it will be a broplem, but most probaply other cams would also fail there. And yes i can show it.
  • Maxwell77Maxwell77
    Thank you for the many responses. I appraise this really. Unfortunately, I think, there will be no solution for the banding problem. 8 Bit and perhaps a not so good video encoder in the GH2 causes this problem... And its true: You will never know when banding is a problem. I had shot some videos at sunrise without banding... But on a a few other videos I get huge banding problems... It is also hard to see in the LCD display...I guess we have to live with this constriction. Perhaps a new AVCHD specification will solve this problem...By the way, I cannot imagine that color banding was a problem in DV-material...But I am not sure at the moment. DV is also 8 Bit... Probably the combination of 8 Bit and a not so good consumer encoder in the GH2 is really the reason for the banding... We should contact some of the GH2 develpers... It would be very exciting what this person will say about the whole issue. ;)
  • proaudio4proaudio4
    I'm surprised this troll thread is still open... Really all complaints and no substance. Sounds like a case of buyer's remorse, and it's not the GH2! LOL

  • LPowellLPowell
    A low bitrate may also force the encoder to use larger quantization factors, which can coarsen the granularity of the color data to even less than 8-bit resolution.
  • StrayStray
    @sam_stickland No, but a lower bitrate increases block size and therefore banding, just like a colour gradient compressed into a jpeg set at a low quality level creates more banding.
  • sam_sticklandsam_stickland
    @LPowell Why would the low-bitrate be a factor in 8 bit created banding? While a low bitrate render might have more macro blocking etc. isn't the bitrate separate from the resolution of the colour space? A higher bitrate can't magic more colours into a pre-defined colourspace, no?

    Thanks for your answers btw :) I'm going to China for a fortnight but when I get back I'm definitely going to experiment with various Rec 709 renders to further my understanding. (I'll create the gradients directly in AE)

    S
  • LPowellLPowell
    @oscillian
    Yes, high exposure and low contrast gives you the best chance to avoid banding in dark areas.

    @sam_stickland
    Yes, if you casually render a low-bitrate, 8-bit Rec. 709 video, you can readily produce banding in areas of smooth, dark gradients.

    Banding isn't usually as visible in old-school videotape footage. The interlaced 60i footage tended to obscure gradients with jitter and random noise.
  • Mark_the_HarpMark_the_Harp
    Don't think I ever saw it with my XHA1 cams either.
  • sam_sticklandsam_stickland
    I don't ever recall seeing it on my old DVX100B, but perhaps that was just dumb luck.
  • Mark_the_HarpMark_the_Harp
    A gradient is a great way to experiment but it's way worse in a real image with moving shots or changing exposires during a shot because you see a moving set of bands.

    The first time I saw it was in 5D mkII footage, and that put me off getting one of those cameras, quite a while before I was even thinking of getting a GH2.
  • sam_sticklandsam_stickland
    @LPowell
    "It's because they have skilled technicians to master Blu-ray and broadcast video using professional multi-pass equipment that squeezes out maximum quality from the available bandwidth."

    But does that mean that if I had a 10 bit camera, and recorded something that would cause banding in a 8 bit camera, and then naively rendered that to an 8 bit Rec.709 file the banding would return?

    If I had access to a 10 bit camera I would test this, but I don't.
  • oscillianoscillian
    @lpowell And I guess that exposing to the right helps, right? Maximize your gain without clipping essential parts with Smooth -2 contrast. I also use a cooler white balance to use more of the green channel. Works out fine in CC.
  • AlexAlex
    if I create a sky like gradient in after Effects (blue to dark blue) in a 8bit timeline and render it into a h264 .mov, banding is very evident. If I do the same but out of an 16bit timeline, the banding effect is much less evident although the result is the same 8bit h264.

    As for the GH2, could it be that there is already banding before the image hits the encoder? Panasonic uses this "pulling-extra-sharpness-from-the-green-channel" trick. MAYBE this method produces the GH2 color problems because there is some serious internal color correction needed to bring the image back to natural. In favor of green, they sacrifice on red. The GH2 might have very shallow red info that gets stretched back to normal causing the banding.
    Do other AVCHD cams also have these green/yellow/banding problems like the GH2? To me it feels more like a "shit in shit out" problem (AVCHD not being the cause for the banding)

    the trick to fight banding in After Effects is to add some noise that dithers the banding away. Just like people suggest here for for the GH2. So pump up ISO and let there be noise and stop whining about a $900 cam not being the perfect no compromise film making tool.
  • LPowellLPowell
    @sam_stickland
    It's because they have skilled technicians to master Blu-ray and broadcast video using professional multi-pass equipment that squeezes out maximum quality from the available bandwidth. An AVCHD video camera has to use a consumer-grade encoder to pump out video frames at a strict, inflexible pace in real-time using limited hardware resources. To do so reliably, compromises must be made.
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