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bit rates max for standard dvd is 8000 so why hack?
  • howardsthowardst

    I am going to post this question in hopes that vitally doesn't say its an old topic cause I spent days looking for an answer to this basic question so please just be kind and explain to me what im not getting LOL. I film with gh2 flow moton. I film iin 720p and edit using vegas pro 12. Most of my distribution is standard dvd. Not blu ray or streaming on the net. Here goes my question. I am getting averages of about 36 thousand bit rates using H mode. The stuff looks great on pc off of the card but a standard dvd in vegas will only let you burn a max of 8000. I understanding that the hack gives you latitude in grading etc etc but if Im not doing any post work what good does all that bit rate do me if it never gets on dvd? Thanks. Im thinking if the original source footage is great it will result in a better dvd but going from 36 thousand to 8 thousand doesn't make sense to me. Hope you understand my question. Thanks

  • 27 Replies sorted by
  • tylerknighttylerknight

    The more data you have to work with the better quality output no matter what. You can put lipstick on shit but it's still shit.

  • Brian_MillsBrian_Mills

    Tylerknight is 100% right: the better the quality you start with, the better the quality you will finish with.

    A standard definition DVD plays video at right around 8kbs. A Blu-Ray is around 18kbs (for video stream, plus audio). So you are capturing BluRay quality video at the source. This will give you a sharper, cleaner output than if you shot at, say, MiniDV quality (which is closer to, but still more than DVD).

    Not to mention, by shooting in HD, you may "future proof" your videos if you find a distribution channel later that accepts only HD.

    And one last thing, not all 8kbs is created equal. I highly recommend you do a 2 pass, VBR encode to maximiaze the quality you can squeeze out of those 8 kbs. And again, having a higher resolution and cleaner source will maximize that process as well.

  • RRRRRRRR

    Another thing is, downscaling is done differently in different software. I don't know how well Sony Vegas handles that, but Adobe Media Encoder is a big no-no for DVD's . I've found that Compressor does the best job of the lot I've tried. I'm sure there are even better (but more time consuming) scaling options out there..

    Maybe someone who does this a lot can chip in with some advice in how to get the most out of high resolution footage?

  • brianlbrianl

    Vegas encoder isn't good. Much better results from TMPGenc which is cheap or, if it's still around, Virtual Dub, a freebie.

  • Fool4UAnywayFool4UAnyway

    8 kbs is a data (quantity) rate. It doesn't say anything about the quality. It might as well be a black-on-white screen showing you only a letter A, for example, in a high resolution and/or a very inefficient codec.

    8 kbs doesn't say anything about the quality. That's why you will always want to capture as much detail as possible, which does somehow dictate a high data throughput.

    But it codecs get more effective compression, you might be able to put more quality in those 8 kbs.

    A train may be able to transport goods at a very high speed, but if you only transport a very small weight, it still does not get you much in the same time.

  • howardsthowardst

    thank you all very much for your replys @brianl if i install TmpgEnc will it work from within vegas for the project file or is it a standalone deal?

  • matt_gh2matt_gh2

    @RRRR Do you find Adobe Media Encoder is bad for DVDs and BluRays, or is the problem just with DVDs?

  • RRRRRRRR

    @matt_gh2 Mainly in downscaling, thus bad for DVDs.

  • Mark_the_HarpMark_the_Harp

    Not to split hairs, but when you all say 8kbps, you mean 8 mbps, right?

  • matt_gh2matt_gh2

    @RRRR good tip , and thanks for clarifying

  • brianlbrianl

    @howardst it's standalone. Super easy to use though. Very painless and I observed significant improvement over the encoding done in Vegas and/or DVD Architect. For a reference, I'm one of those rubes who thinks the hacked GH2 is insignificantly better than a stock GH2. But TMPenc to my eyes makes a big difference.

  • AthirilAthiril

    The codec is much more processor intensive and doesn't need to encode in real time.

  • tinbeotinbeo

    There was a thread for : http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/2820/maintaining-best-quality-while-transferring-hd-to-sd/p1

  • howardsthowardst

    @brianl if its standalone how do i get the project file out of vegas. what would it have to be rendered to before bringing it into tmpgen

  • brianlbrianl

    You need to render an AVI file. High quality. I use the GoPro Cineform which used to be free, dunno if it is any more. You can also use uncompressed. Delete the uncompressed after so you don't fill up your drive.

  • howardsthowardst

    the cineform is not a setting in vegas. so i will render an avi out of vegas in the highest possible quality. then bring the avi into tmpgenc right?

  • brianlbrianl

    Yes, and you can easily download different codecs and they will appear in Vegas, you might have to go to the custom button in the render window to see it.

  • howardsthowardst

    you have been very helpfup brian. so render my vegas project to avi. import avi into tmpgec now what about burning lol? does tmpgec burn also? i normally use nero to author and burn but dont want nero to recompress

  • RRRRRRRR

    Uncompressed should be the quickest though? (if you have space for it)

  • brianlbrianl

    I think it does but I usually go back to DVDA for the menus and stuff and then burn it.

  • brianlbrianl

    To go with what RRRR says, some Vegas users do report headaches with Cineform. They originally heralded CF as a gift from God, it's not. Red frames, black frames, crashes, it doesn't always love Vegas. ymmv.

  • howardsthowardst

    brian does tmpgenc burn also or just code?

  • howardsthowardst

    so for 80 bucks i can get the latest version of tmpgenc 5 and that is much better than the ner 10 ive used for years?

  • brianlbrianl

    i dont know. i just know its better than the vegas render engine. and the dvda engine too. ymmv. myself and others have had great results with it, but im not a tech guru.

  • howardsthowardst

    ok brian. so u edit your movie in vegas. then u render as an avi in vegas and make your dvds n tmggenc. is this your workflow

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