GH2 Resolution. Is it enough for my otherwise perfect film?

mark2929

I bought a GH2 and after some tests using the hacks available I used a pentax 50mm lens at f2.8 set to 160 isa (The lowest setting) I assume this might be like an EX1 without gain? Or maybe the GH2 has an optimum ISO setting maybe 500 Sorry new to digital cameras. When viewed on my monitor I found the GH2 resolution was very good. However once recorded using Intra 176mbs which is a great colour improvement on the 44mbs which tends to have a redish tinge. I found the resolution to be not as good as my old EX1 with a Letus adapter and using the HDSDI out and recording to pro res 220.

Some have said by using the letus adapter I would only effectively be able to resolve about 700 lines indeed some did quick and dirty tests. If this is the case then I wonder how many lines the GH2 resolves? I estimate then maybe 550? Seems a bit low.

Does anyone know or have an idea?.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

If you ask me, I do not care.
Many cocksuckers like to measure resolution from morning till night.
Go and shoot something meaningful, be it GH2 or any old and purely resolving camera.

bannedindv

watch this and tell me that you could get footage that looks this good from the EX-1:

itimjim

LOL!

That's right boys and girls....put the dicks down, and go shoot something.

Aria

I've read articles that did tests and the GH1 was up around 750. Just with my own eyes I would tend to concur with that. Most agree that the GH2 resolution is a bit better than the GH1 so there you go. Most who talk about the GH line tend to agree that it has very good resolving power.

I also don't care much about what the actual final number is, since I LOVE the look of the GH line. Everything i've see from GH1 and GH2 has looked amazing!!! Resolution should be the least of your problems.

mark2929

Vitaliy

Both my films were shown in Londons west end on a 40' screen and resolution was very important. They both looked spectacular with the EX1 Letus combo looking slightly better.

I want to make a feature film and looking for a cheap camera that can do this. I'm thinking maybe the GH2 can and so far it does look a little soft in my opinion and want to know what resolution it is. Now that doesn't mean its a bad thing to be a little soft as its kinder on faces etc But I do want to be able to project this on a 40 foot screen and know it will work so I know my camera's weaknesses as well as its strengths.

That's why I sent you a donation and thats why I bought both EOSHD's books.

Mark

driftwood

@mark2929 I have an EX3 - you're talking about horizontal line resolution in interlace mode of 1000 lines and around 700 if you use the letus extreme (which I also have).
But its still 1920 x 540 each field. Keep to the correct shutter speed roughly x2 =50 shutter and its very hard to tell any difference. Of course there are so many differing variables, ie lens, shutter being used, and the codecs themselves but to keep it fair - measure sxs pro card recordings against gh2 sdcard recordings. The GH2 doesnt have SDIHD out. But youre talking apples and oranges again.
I would take VK's advice, forget measuring. Film away and enjoy the many benefits of this tiny lil' beast of a camera.
And yes, GH2 footage blows up spectacularly on a 40ft projection. I promise :-)

mark2929

This picture is a frame grab from an EX1 Another with just an EX1

mark2929

Hi driftwood

The above pics are 1920x1080 I'd love to show you a pic from my GH2 but for some reason can't upload it. This picture is almost as good as the EX1 with a letus but a little soft

Right the shutter speed on the EX1 is 50 and the lens used was a pentax f1.4 50mm The same lens I used on the GH2 that show its a little softer so actually apples with apples.

I'm not trying to say this better than this one at all. I just wondered if someone knew the resolution using charts etc. Funny I cant find any chart tests for the GH2 anywhere and really for the level of performance the GH2 gives I'd have though there would have been loads. The reason I wanted tests was to satisfy myself I did nothing wrong and be happy making a feature with a GH2.

Mark

driftwood

You'll have no probs with the GH2, I swear. Youre right nobody has conducted h/v line tests yet. People are already making features with the GH2. Google away or look here on this site.

mark2929

Thanks Driftwood. Thanks to yours and Vitaliy and others hacks which have made it possible. Thanks Vitaliy. Sorry if I seemed to be starting a flame war Not my intention at all.

I would need to see some resolution tests before making a feature. I noticed on my 22" monitor the picture from the GH2 lLOOKS tack sharp and as good as an EX1 but the intra 176 isn't recording it as well as the monitor shows in my opinion.

I know the GH2 HDMI is 10 bit out but that is lost in the transfer using avisynth. I imagine that could change.

should also mention the above frame grabs were made using the EX1 10 bit out to pro res 220 mb prores files and colour corrected in after effects before being rendered out as DPX files and then frame grabbed. I should also say I had to sell my EX1 earlier in the year and later switched to a GH2 after being disillusioned by the panasonic AF101 and the Sony FS100 Both dont match up to the GH2 now.

blofeld

@mark2929 Are you using a good quality adapter between that Pentax 50mm and GH2? Cheaper adapters might cause issues with slighty tilted mounts and/or wrong flange distances.

RRRR

@mark: Don't know how the letus adapter stacks up, but whenever I've compared footage off the EX3 (1080p) and the GH2 has looked sharper, and cleaner (no fringing e.t.c). This, even with very modest patches.

Driftwood has more experience of the Ex3 though, so he propably knows what he's talking about.

One thing to think about: The same lens will look different on both setups. A lens that has a nice sweet spot on the crop of the letus adapter might not have such a sweet sweet spot on the gh2 and vice versa. Not to mention what an adapter can do..

Don't worry about the resolution of the camera, which is more than good enough. Worry about what lenses you use. I suggest you try out a bunch of optics to see what will work for your project.

P.s. No visitor in the cinema that I know of, have counted the lines of the projected image.

smsjr

@mark2929 I suggest renting some lenses from lensrentals.com or other such places and do a series of tests. Some people want a less sharp image and use lenses that get them that look. Others may want a crisper look. This can be achieved with very sharp lenses. Some lenses just nail both worlds such as the Cooke S4s.

Keep in mind that the EX1/EX3 has been shown to have a lot of edge enhancement, even with sharpening turned down. That could be a contributing factor. The key with the GH2 is to determine if you can get the images to look right to your eyes on a calibrated display. If the color, resolution, motion, etc look good to you, then it is good. Time to film the movie. If it doesn't, double check that you have got the most out of the GH2 image, and then look elsewhere. Next step up is a Red One, Epic, Scarlet, or Alexa. You will have plenty of resolution with those cameras. Throw on some Master Primes and you will have tack sharp images on a 40' screen no problem.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@mark2929

If you really fan of sharpest picture, use such lenses: 12mm F2, 45mm F1.8, 25mm F1.4.

proaudio4

I own an EX1. Great camera, but one downfall is it's horrible CA.
Forget shooting someone in a white shirt under high contrast, especially on the tele end at its fastest f-stop. Also it tends to go soft in the corners on the tele end of the lens.

The rez is excellent and under right light conditions it's simply amazing.

The XDCAM 35Mb/s codec is OK, but no where the level quality of the high bitrate GOP1 we're shooting on the GH2. Now using EX1 SDI OUT video capture, a different story since you can capture raw 4:2:2.
But, the fixed lens with its issues is a problem, which is a fucking bummer.

But for long event footage. No doubt a good choice.

Ian_T

Can't find the source but I've read a few times in the past that the GH-2 has up to 850 lines of vertical resolution. It was also said to have more than the AF100 and the FS100.

EDIT: Here's the German site that did a test a while back. You'll see the obvious differences between the two cams. I remember someone brought this up with Barry Green on DVXUser and he replied with a snapshot of the AF100 HDMI out vs the stock GH-2's codec. Then he swore he would do an official test of the two (but that never came). I thought that was funny (I'm not Barry Bashing because I think he's a cool guy....but...????). Anyways...the GH-2, with the hack, has come a long way since that German test. If it was considered good then (which is obvious in that test) then it has to be somewhere near spectacular now.

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slashcam.de%2Fartikel%2FTest%2FPanasonic-GH2---der-kompakte-Ueberflieger--Aus-dem-Messlabor.html&act=url

http://nofilmschool.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/panasonic_af100_gh2_charts.jpg

mpgxsvcd

@Vitaliy_Kiselev

Just curious why you didn't include the 14-140mm in the list of the sharpest lenses. Wide open @ 14mm it is the single sharpest m4/3 or 4/3 lens on center. At around 25mm it is as sharp as almost any lens across the full lens.

The dpreview lens comparisons can be used to show this. If you want sharp then you want the 14-140mm.

itimjim

At 25mm on the 14-140 it's already closed down to near f5.6....I'd hope to God it's sharp! :-)

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@mpgxsvcd

I listed sharp primes :-)
One ones that are sharp wide open :-)

mark2929

Well from my limited testing and I dont have the proper charts but the GH2 does seem to be softer than an EX1 with a letus adapter and a 50mm f1.4 pentax lens which is a lot of glass and as I said some estimated it to be about 700 lines and they backed it up with a quick mtf test. Now I'm not sure their figure was right as I know thats not always a good test and maybe the EX1 with the adapter was resolving a lot more. But if it was resolving about 700 lines that leaves the GH2 below that. Its all well and good saying who cares about resolution but then would you be prepared to back that up with a £100,000 budget on a film project? i know resolution on a cinema screen REALLY does make a difference. Now many might say why not use rent or buy a more expensive camera but a £100,000 on a film is ALL TAKEN on the film with a limited amount for camera and equipment and if the GH2 can be made to do it then GREAT and why not!

I think a proper resolution test would be really helpful in clarifying what the camera specs are at the moment.

Ian T Thanks for the link!

Proaudio Yes I am talking about 422 out and using a kipro.

I'd also like to say the resolution on my monitor from the HDMI output of the GH2 was better than the intra 176 capture. So the sensor is resolving the detail possibly higher than an EX1 but why isn't that detail being captured by the intra 176?

Maybe it might be better to go through an atomos and find a way to capture 422 in avisynth.

Mark

alcomposer

@mark2929 there is still a way to go with HDMI capture out of this cam... lets hope that the new firmware that has just been released by Panasonic has some hidden gems that allow VK to understand more about this topic!

danyyyel

I don't know how to link to to a post directly so look at this page at a post by @Sage http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/1301/official-low-gop-topic-series-3/p12 , I don't see your above example better than this and I find your example having artifact and edge enhancement like . I won't compare because I find the sage one much better in a number of ways but thats just me, very detailed but still very organic no hard edges except a little little steps on the glass metal frame. Now do I care, not at all for me it is sharp enough, going to such level of pixel pipping-ness, when people have been projecting on Canon f%$k resolution.

mark2929

danyyel its not much use looking at web compressed videos really. Thats why I've posted some frame grabs.

On a lot of sites you have people paid by manufacturers to skew results IE Often highly respected Gurus in the pay of a manufacturer or selling lots of gear while sneering at anyone who dares say anything that doesn't make their brand the greatest in the universe and a lot of rubbish is talked about cameras and what they can do. There is a reason that an Alexa can command such big money and why film shoots have expensive gear and its not because they are pixel peepers or measurebaters These put downs are often used by those with a mission that either makes them money or because they support a product like a football team. I've seen so called nuetral forums do this. I am none of those and I dont see any reason why GH2 owners should be afraid of the truth. If the truth can help make better films lets get it out there. I'm not here to rubbish any camera I want to know what the tools can or can't do.

After doing more tests this morning in case I got it wrong I can say the GH2 is definately softer compared to an EX1 or an EX1 with a letus adapter. I'm wondering if this is the same resolution as a panasonic af101 Although the GH2 has a bigger usable sensor so maybe its slightly better. That would then be maybe 630 lines which is below even 720p and perhaps unsuited to big screen projection. Has anyone seen GH2 footage projected? I am fumbling in the dark with this as no one has done proper testing and overlooked what is obviously the best DSLR and probable mid range camera out there. Maybe to many vested interests are at stake.

Those frame grabs I posted using an EX1 have the sharpening turned off. There is no sharpening although there is colour correction.

brianluce

I haven't tested the GH2 for resolution, but the reports I've read from others says it's about 800 lines. I used to own an EX3, I never tested it either, but I like the GH2's large sensor image better than the EX3 as it does things the EX cant. But I never used the EX with an external recorder -- that should be a nice setup -- though a letus sounds clunky, don't you lose a stop of light with that?

mark2929

Brian the problem is without proper testing no one knows! Have you got links to those reports?

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