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Tracking sources/adaptations in films or a copy of a copy of a copy
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    Remakes can be included, but that's just the easy way in... maybe if they're remakes (you think) are better than it's progenitalia...

    BIG SPOILERS!!!

    Ok, so Christopher Priest wrote The Prestige in 1995. Much before Nolan's adaptation to screen, 2006, in Eduardo Mignogna's film La Fuga (Argentinian-spanish co-production) from 2001 you can see the doubles trick (same Christian Bale used later ) used in a very intelligent way by the poker player crak Víctor Gans. La fuga is based in director's novel with same name from 1999. Did Eduardo Mignogna knew Priest's book??? Eduardo Mignogna never got to see The prestige as he died that same year

    What you got? =)

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  • 11 Replies sorted by
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    SPOILERS!!!

    Hi guys, today I'd like to try establish a relation between Enemy (2013) and Copie Conforme (2010).
    Enemy is Denis Villeneuve (the absolutely must watch Incendies) latest film and based on the novel by portuguese writer and Nobel prize José Saramago and adapted by Javier Gulón (El rey de la montaña, great film BTW).
    Copia Conforme or Certified Copy is Abbas Kiarostami 15th, by my count, long feature and based in his own writing. This film brought a Palm d'or for Binoche who is uhmmm faboulastic =)

    Actually there is not so much to say, in my view both films portray and differently explore same thing, extramarital love affairs, or adultery as church people like to say (echoing a popular courthouse) pointing index finger and then throwing stones. Anyway, difference is POV, one film is told from man point of view, the other is from mistress side and then blended. Still, in both the "forbidden" is represented by women.
    Enemy has some Lynchian SDMS subcutaneous mood with spiders (being together with the web a big metaphor for the loss of freedom in Adam / Anthony relationship) and all and the atmospheres are murky and depressing, a bit like a shakesperian hypersubjective bipolar weather :P Copia Conforme stress is represented differently as it's much much more subtle and playful in a delightfully deceiving and intelligent way; examples starting with title, and associations with birth, art, love, parenthood, weddings everywhere, happiness... characters impersonating copies, acting as originals, shifting roles, etc. etc.
    Because of the nature of what portray, both films are not candy for the feelings - Gyllenhaal literally saved his ass "killing" the affair... or the memory of it (thankfully never clear) - but a window opened to the surreal/very consuming experience (a dangerous game) anyone who have been lingering between two loves feels - at this point our sponsor keeps insisting you HAVE TO CHOOSE ONE and one only.

    Well that's it, don't want to mumble too much, ah yeah, I wish Lindtaker had gone to see Kiarostami's film and had taken notes on how to do a film in the Mediterranean with only 2 characters, about a crumbling/difficult relationship and dialog based and not only managing not to be a superficial diarrhea of thoughts but actually to make some interesting story out of it, full of playfulness and really good dialogs and mise en scène.
    Now a smiley and pisgo-me =)

  • Good topic @maxr.

  • @matt_gh2 cheers matttttttte ,-)

     
    Ron Yogul's father photo
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    Petapixel text
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    Hitchcock's Vertigo grab
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    Links:
    video HK
    article
    Who Am I - Kein System ist sicher imdb
     
    BTW Vitaliy and Vadim look way cooler and laid back than the characters in the film :D
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  • Interesting topic... I came across something recently that's not exactly about adaptations, but questions authorship and the bizarre claiming of "rights" by strait up ripoff artists.

    This is the story of Sergey Astahov, his followers and so called critics. Sergey is a troubled guy suffering from family problems (both his alcoholic parents have apparently died or left him), health problems (epilepsy, high blood pressure etc), psychological problems (claims to have been sent to psychiatric centers where he was abused) and identity issues (loves the new hyper-consumerism in Russia, is a crusader for the Russian Orthodox church and for the Russian Federation in general at the same time as his homosexuality). Yet he still manages to fire up a video camera and document his life and views of his everyday life from the apartment where he lives. After several years of regular postings, he's gained considerable attention because of the way he's adopted and through his ranting, mirrors Putin's propaganda machine in Russia, revealing how much it can affect people on an everyday level.

    Here's Sergey's own Youtube channel (only in Russian): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCba4jRs0LIOklXXd6ZAyzNA

    In 2013 comes along "Artist" and "Media Activist" Anatoli Ulyanov, who makes a film, directly remixing Sergey Astahov's videos (this one has English subs):

    A year later "Filmmaker" and radical "Artist" Oleg Mavromatti produces "No Place for Fools", which also directly uses Sergey Astahov's (and other) youtube clips and Ulyanov's press text. I have seen this film and it is 90% straight unedited clips from Astahov's channel (along with a number of suicide vids) depicting "the state of Russia today". He also puts a disclaimer at the the end of the film "Any resemblance to real people is purely coincidental" which is pure nonsense, yet the film was selected by the Rotterdam Film Festival to represent Russia. https://www.iffr.com/en/films/no-place-for-fools/

    Oleg Mavromatti is supposedly banned from Russia for making a performance where he was nailed to a cross, thus violating Russian law for violating sacred Orthodox iconography: http://olegmavromatti.com/pages/do_not_believe_your_eyes.htm

    Earlier this year both "filmmakers" were interviewed on Russian television and questioned about their films and ethics surrounding Sergey Astahov's material and life. Neither filmmaker has had any contact with Astahov (claiming he is unreachable), and denies any responsibility regarding his life and work (even though they clearly are profiting from it). In fact, both "filmmakers" dispute the "originality" of their films claiming one has ripped of the other's idea and it is irrelevant whether or not they used some else's material. Unfortunately this circus is only in Russian, but it illustrates the absurdity of the situation.

    If anything, it does show the state of "authorship" and "originality" in the internet world and how easy it is to make a name for yourself as a "filmmaker" without one every having to pick up a camera or leave your desk. I'm curious if anyone else has come across this and what your opinions may be.

  • Fergusson's remix series are not only informative and higly entertaining as they are truly inspiring, both-wise 'cause of his dedicated research and their slick, mother-beat, refresh top vanilla, sweet output form.
    I chose to put them here but could also go here - http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/15068/its-all-about-relation-chips-or-layers-and-layers-and-layers

    Avatar as "sorry about colonialism" sub-genre - where sympathetic white people feel bad about all the murder, pillaging and annihilation being done on their behalf - ha ha ha just gold Kirby!!!

     
    Still Kirby's (understandably) mostly focused on western and hollywood's specific production analysis... which is surely not all, and though massively influential, very little in the historical context of art.
    Possible complementary readings: the old but good, W. Benjamin's The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction
    and Jimmie Durham's A Certain Lack of Coherence... but if you're an inflexible USA patriot, or a cynic you should probably skip this one. This compilation of writings - from the stand point of a "(culturally) infiltrated" native american - are eye-openly interesting; their allow a perspective that sheds a bit of light on some aspects of USA's cultural context and its sources, focusing more on the physiology of ethics than in economics... The same aspects many mainstream's thinkers, essayists, cultural agents, artists, etc. refuse to acknowledge, avoid or if profitable continue to make use, to promote, to obscure.

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    STUDIO BLOCKBUSTERS AND UNMEMORABLE MUSIC

     
    Tony Zhou's (Every Frame a Painting) The Marvel Symphonic Universe in which he criticizes the Marvel universe for missing a strong connecting musical theme.
     

     
     
    An extended (included historic ) perspective of the forest by Dan Golding
     

     
    Source: https://filmmakeriq.com/lobby/

  • the americans are always copying good foreign films as their own, or they'd like to think so...best example abre los ojos/vanilla sky

  • the americans are always...

    and calling themselves after a whole continent :P

     
    I've got no problem with copying, it has been demonstrated instrumental in the advance of the decadence, je je je, so none whatsoever IF what results is interesting and not driven by profit only, which in hollywood copy-cating (like the case you mentioned) is both. Japanese horror holly-remakes are also a shameful disgrace, furthermore as a vast part of the context's richness is brutally butchered and/or lost in translation. It is really sad because is the end of the greedy line... just looking at something and trying to figure out how to make your machine digest it and puke back out again making as much cash as possible, zero interest in understanding its origin values or drive and even less in trying to translate them or to find similar ones in your own context, just a sad giant worm starting to eat his own asshole, bbrrrghhuuhg!!!

     
    But regarding the topic, I'm personally into more sensible (regarding the act of copying itself or the content) examples or at least ones from which you can learn something. The above little essays seemed interesting 'cause they reflect on how the "mindless" copying from copies process is starting to leave the audience "cold"... having no memory of something, being unaffected... cold (?). Ahí te saludo señor @kurth =) BTW kurth if you can check Dode Hoek it is very interesting theme passed along as a cop thriller but with a lot of buried social implications ( specially regarding second generation inmigrants); not to mention that it's a colossal photography compendium with a very smart scene scripting and editing... check the mirror scene at the whorehouse, like in Contact to the 10th, totally mindblowing

  • actually @maxr....that's two continents !!...and is there really anything to learn from films ? I mean one oldboy is enough. These days films seem to be nothing more than individual scenes ripped off from an archaic language we only dimly recall, even if we still recall kubrick...all signs of a dead medium...like painting on caves after we discovered architecture. Their gift of knowledge is just as ephemeral as the light they use to project it, best used to instigate alpha waves. But nothing one good emp weapon won't cure. Saludos back at u !

  • @kurth
    OMG that's even worst calling themselves after 2 continents :P

     
    I feel your pain compadrito... But amid plowing through the culture manure, sometimes a kind mushroom pops. For me, the thing is trying to gather as many of those as possible for the great tortilla tripping =)

     

    These days films seem to be nothing more than individual scenes ripped off from an archaic language we only dimly recall

    Please watch Zvyagintsev's Leviathan; it mirrors what you say while refuting it

     

    Their gift of knowledge is just as ephemeral as the light they use to project it

    I don't agree, cannot be generalized like that, total Simpson's effect. Also hope that deep down you don't either

     
    have to go now, there's a kid here who wants to make a paper mask

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