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DR100mk2 vs RM222 etc.
  • wgtwowgtwo

    Looking into upgrading my audio kit to accompany my GH3, and have a couple of questions that Google can't really help me with.

    How favourably does the sound quality (namely noise floor) on the DR100mk2 compare to the RM222 and other DSLR preamps? I know the JuicedLink guy did a video on this, but I don't really trust that - the presentation was horribly preachy and it really did feel like he was trying to sell his product more than anything else.

    How viable is the use of the DR100 as a preamp/mixer via the use of its 3.5mm line out port? This is, of course, not the only thing I am buying it for; it's just that it seems a lot more flexible than the single purpose RM222.

    Any other suggestions are also, of course, welcome. Thanks!

  • 22 Replies sorted by
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

  • astrabanastraban

    It's difficult to answer for several reasons :

    • few people (apart proper sound guys) have different models to compare themselves... beside "pro" reviewers and salesman... not always the most objective advices ($ inside), you're right. :-)

    • It depends on your using : some tools are perfect for several jobs (let's say a good bunch of corporate video) but not for others where you need a more critical result (let say fiction... but sometimes even an interview can be ruined by the sound).

    • Video guys (like me) are not the best adviser I think (not their field, and often they're gear head : "pricer is better"... be aware)

    Not my job, but I have the DR 100 MK2 and had good results with it for several use. When I need the most perfect sound I can afford, honestly, I call a sound guy with a sound device mixer between the mic and the MK2. The tools and/or his expertise give me a way better sound than mine on solo mode. Hope a proper sound guy can answer to you.

  • Peter123456Peter123456

    I picked up a Juiced Link CX231 on ebay for around $130 shipped. Next, I ordered a Zoom H1, so I am hoping I get great quality with that combination for a total of about $230. I can post tests once I get the Zoom if there is interest.

  • wgtwowgtwo

    That's... a really strange combination. Does the H1 even do XLR output?

  • xenogearsxenogears

    I used the Tascam DR-100MKII and was good enough, but now i'm using the Tascam DR-60 and i feel a little better floor noise performance, is a little big for my taste but is very functional using it under the camera, you can record sound on the unit and on camera at the same time which is nice for backup proposes, also record on two channels with different levels.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Does the H1 even do XLR output?

    You do not need it, as JL is preamp, it's just output proper level signal to recorder, that can be small and cheap.

  • spacewigspacewig

    I've used the preamps on the DR100mk2, i.e. microphone>DR100. The results were unusable. Please keep this in mind: these portable recorders are NOT intended as field recorders, they are built and marketed with musicians in mind. They are made so you can place the unit in a rehearsal room and record your jams/practices/ideas. They are not made to amplify the signal of a boom mic in a 'quiet' environment to capture pristine audio. They don't claim it in the literature and they don't deliver this kind of performance in practice. It is better to go the mic>preamp>line-in of portable recorder route. Remember, the further your microphone is from the ideal distance of the talent (<12 inches) the more gain you have to apply (inverse square law). The more gain you apply, the more of the internal self-noise of the amplifying device (and microphone) you will record with your audio. A major pain to deal with in post. You will very, very rarely have a situation where your boom mic will be 12 inches or less from your talent (in a narrative shoot).

    A juiced-link and a portable recorder will net a much cleaner result. More shit to carry than a DR100? Yes. Better results? Ditto. Alternatively, you could opt for a sound devices 702...

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @spacewig

    Again, for budget minded, DR680 is all you need. Especially handy if you have multiple mikes.

    Next thing to understand that for DR100 and similar recorders you need to specially select hot mikes, so they can deliver more or less useful results.

  • spacewigspacewig

    I can't comment on the DR680 as I've never tried it.

  • mrbillmrbill

    Neither can I, but I'd like to recommend the combination of a Juicedlink CX231 pre-amp and a zoom H1 recorder.

  • wgtwowgtwo

    Doubt I'll be spending that much for a DR680. The next port of call would probably be the DR60d, which seems to have preamps comparable to the 702. Very leery of the whole lack of a proper potentiometer, though lots of people seem to think that this is not really an issue.

    Already got a used NTG1.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Doubt I'll be spending that much for a DR680. The next port of call would probably be the DR60d, which seems to have preamps comparable to the 702.

    Hmm. DR680 is $489 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tascam-DR-680-Multi-Channel-8Ch-8Track-24bit-Portable-Field-Audio-Recorder-DR680-/141058140879?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Multi_Track_Recorders&hash=item20d7b86acf

    Btw, I hightly doubt that it is "used", as now many guys use such approach to sell thing below very strict MSRP.

    $529 kit - http://www.amazon.com/Tascam-DR-680-Portable-Recorder-Headphones/dp/B00B2CLZ6I/

    Prices for DR680 went up, as Tascam dealers seem to control them more tight now.

  • wgtwowgtwo

    That's not too bad, I guess, but I find it hard to justify paying almost $150 for only somewhat better preamps and proper gain control and losing out on the DR60d's convenient form factor.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @wgtwo

    If you ask me, DR60D form factor is far from convenient. And it's preamps are not really very good, check other video by Robert.

    To be short, if you want to shoot on rig only with maximum of 2 channels, better get JuicedLink preamp and record direct.

    If you want to have proper sound man, or 2 or more shotguns and additional lavs - use DR680.

  • Peter123456Peter123456

    I did some tests with my setup. I am very happy with the Zoom h1 (low-quality preamps that are turned down) paired with the Juiced Link (better quality preamps that are turned up). Unfortunately there's some traffic noise in the background, as well as a high pitched whine coming from my light fixture, so please ignore that.

  • dancerchrisdancerchris

    I have had very good results using a JuicedLink preamp and a cheap line level recorder (DR-05). I've even split the output from the JL preamp and sent to both camera and DR-05. Haven't noticed a problem (although I don't use this setup as normal practice - too fiddly).

  • wgtwowgtwo

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev Oh really? Doesn't it work well mounted underneath the camera? (I wouldn't feel safe mounting it on the GH3's hot shoe). I did look at his other video, the one comparing it to the 702, and to my ear, it really didn't sound that much worse, which is really damn impressive. Still, without the form factor, it loses a lot of its versatility. The idea was that I would be using it on both one-man shoots and those with a sound guy.

  • xenogearsxenogears

    Here is the Philip Johnston experience with the GH3 and the Tascam DR-60 at 2013 IBC. http://www.hdwarrior.co.uk/2013/09/24/why-i-used-the-lumix-gh3-for-ibc/#comments

  • maxrmaxr

    @xenogears from same guy's ibc report

  • wgtwowgtwo

    I sent Tascam an email about the DR60d, asking if the pots issue had been at least alleviated through a firmware update. Will post results here.

    http://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/16619-introducing-the-tascam-dr-60d/page-2 This leads me to believe that it may actually be better than all the reviews make it out to be.

  • wgtwowgtwo

    Another semi-cheap DR680 on Ebay, but at this point, I think I may actually be more interested in the DR60d. I was told by a Tascam employee (see: http://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/16619-introducing-the-tascam-dr-60d/page-2) that it actually has better pres than the DR680, so really, the only thing it's lacking is all those inputs and proper potentiometers, something that the same Tascam guy said is being worked on.

    Hmmm...

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @wgtwo

    Please, try to use D60 topic, as here it is not good place. I also doubt Tascam representative word on preamps.

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