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Official Sony VG20 topic
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev
    image









    Specifications:

    http://presscentre.sony.eu/content/Detail.aspx?ReleaseID=6938&NewsAreaID=2


    1080/60p (50p in PAL countries) 28Mbps
    16 megapixel APS-HD CMOS
    Old, VG10 EVF
    Shoot RAW in photo.
    Available: November
    Price: $1,600 (body) and $2,200 (kit)




    More information will be added soon.

    vg20.jpg
    800 x 538 - 58K
  • 43 Replies sorted by
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev
  • SkeptikalSkeptikal
    A LOT of noise in the blue sky when panning...unless it's the Vimeo encoding. Download is 640x360, 59.69MB ...so who knows.
  • AriaAria
    I wouldn't be put off by the video since it's obviously not going to be the best the camera can do. My question is just how much of a real functional improvement is the VG20 over the A77 or A65. The actual video features that an everyday cameraman would need to have access to verses the DSLR form factor of the A77/65. Since the pricing is practically the same as the A77, which is the better buy?

    I don't know for sure, but my guess is that the VG20 may have better low light since it's only 16MP verses 24MP sensor in the A77/65. It could be a less is more deal on that front or maybe not. I like the fact that the A77's actual stills features are so great and it still has the video quality. That would seem to make it a better bang for the buck camera.
  • danyyyeldanyyyel
    For photography, the A77 24 megapixel apsc sensor + 30% light loss from slt, seems at first sight not good high iso (see link below). I don't know how it will translate for video but a bit of a show stopper, lots of NR smearing no details as low as 800 iso. I starting to ask myself if in fact the tree is not hiding the forest here. If the VG20 is the big surprise for video centric use. The vg10 even had uncompressed 422 output and the 16.1 mp sensor from Sony had exceptional DR in the Nikon and Pentax camera and good low light quality. But it had lot of moire and aliasing. If they have cured that it could very good and lets not forget a mount that can accept virtually any lens format.... I am also asking myself about its smaller sibling the Nex-5n.

    http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/AA77/AA77A.HTM
  • danyyyeldanyyyel
    The first VG20 1080p video. It is a youtube one so far from the best to give a good idea of the image quality. I see a little aliasing but no color moire (the grill of the 4x4 driving towards the camera being one case). So this thread is very quiet and you have to ask why. Perhaps the VG10 was such a crippled camera that the many discard the VG line?

  • EOSHDEOSHD
    NEX5N is likely the same for image quality, certainly has same sensor. It also has same encoder and similar image processor. It's $700 with 18-55mm, the VG20 is $2199 with 18-200mm.

    Likely you would need a good reason to get the VG20 and for some it does have those good reasons built in :)

    Mainly the extra manual control is on physical buttons throughout the body and the built in mic is better.

    It also has a top handle and manual audio control.

    If you are a wedding videographer guy you would probably get a lot out of it but for the rest of us the NEX 5N will be a much better deal.
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev
    NEX 5N has no audio control, 18-200mm is not that cheap and it is very useful.
    VG20 body only is $1600 only.
    VG20 also has EVF.
  • danyyyeldanyyyel
    People have been saying that the VG10 outputted uncompressed hdmi signal and have recorded it. That would be big if the VG20 has it too. It would be a differentiating factor compared to all the dslr to date (will have to wait for the hack gh2).
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev
  • EOSHDEOSHD
    @Vitaliy I know the NEX 5N has no audio control and I know the 18-200 isn't cheap. The question should be 'do you need them'. Because it's a lot of money for just manual audio and a zoom.

    VG20 certainly is an improvement on the VG10 and I am looking forward to it, but first I am getting the NEX 5N.

    Low light performance is superb
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev
    @EOSHD
    >Low light performance is superb

    And?
    I don't give a fuck about low light performance as anyway you need your lighs to make proper lighting.
    I much prefer usability of VG series.
    And having video lens like 14-140mm or 18-200mm is a must for me.

    Source of Andrew info:
    http://www.focus-numerique.com/test-1294/compact-sony-nex-5n-bruit-electronique-12.html
  • AriaAria
    I'm so glad that they are selling the VG20 body only!!! This was a huge complaint for some with the VG10 and if you have lenses I can see why. Now you aren't forced to buy the lens if you don't need it. For me the fact that the VG20 leans more towards video functionality is a plus. I don't need another stills camera as much as I need a video camera with the look of a DSLR :)

    Hopefully they haven't changed the HDMI output, which i've heard is a clean 4:2:2.

    Oh and lowlight will be key for many of my jobs which are live show recordings where I can't use lights, so i'm hoping the quality is very high for both cameras.
  • stefanosstefanos
    @Vitaliy_Kiselev
    I think there are a very few people who actually understand and appreciate the reality of what you're saying.
    And the people who keep bitching and debating over low light performance and spend hours looking at high iso etc are very rarely people who create real films that involve deep thought and design. they're usually advanced techie hobbyists. Now, this is a broad generalization and is not an attack at anyone, certain event shooters and stuff need ultra low light etc And ofcourse I want Low light performance to keep improving etc, but people shouldn't go crazy about it. I'd much rather have a GH2 built like a tank than have super duper clean iso 6400.
    The camera maybe able to see in the dark, but it ain't gonna SHAPE the fucking light for you, so we'd better start shaping that damn light:) !
  • sohussohus
    @stefanos
    @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    I am happy when my camera sees what my eyes can see. I don't want to see more, nor less, just the same. I think it will be at max 10 years before my dream comes reality. Then I want a recorder in my head so I can record what my eyes see. Am I asking too much?
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev
    @sohus

    I suggest you to read understand how eye works and that part the brain plays in all this.
    Other than this you describe perfect way to make more crap using more advance technology :-)
  • bwhitzbwhitz
    "I don't give a fuck about low light performance as anyway you need your lighs to make proper lighting."

    Tell this to David Fincher. He uses allot of underexposure/natural/low-light shots. And when he does light, it's only key areas. You're almost always going to have underexposed areas if you are making cinematic/dynamic frames. Exposing every-part of the frame perfectly with lights does not look good. This is what Adam Sandler movies look like. They're funny as shit... but look very staged and set-up. Too much lighting.

    Go watch Social Network again and tell me that the Red's low-light ability didn't help. :)

    Of course, when you say "low-light performance" I consider that be how "clean" the image is in low-light... not just how high the ISO can go.

    From an interview about the Red-MX on Social Network:
    "The Mysterium-X’s amazing ability to handle both mixed color temperatures and low light situations affords us exciting opportunities to push the boundaries of our craft."

    -Jeff Cronenweth, A.S.C.
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev
    http://presscentre.sony.eu/content/Detail.aspx?ReleaseID=6938&NewsAreaID=2

    Sony VG-20 uses much worse old viewfinder - Swivel EVF 0.43 Xtra Fine 1152k dots

    You never can get the Sony. They are special.
  • AriaAria
    Yea Sony is really funny! I hate it when companies do such stupid things. Now they know they have no business using such old crap when there's better tech in their other newer cameras. I can't kill Sony too much after they've given us such gems as the HX9v and NEX-5N. Cameras with great bang for the buck. I just don't understand skimping on a camera that is $1,600.00 for the Body. I'm positive that Sony has PLENTY of margin since they're using a consumer camcorder body and almost everything about the camera is borrowed from tech they use in other cameras! I mean really SONY?

    Still I like the VG20's overall package. It gives me pretty much everything I want and need from a Video Camera. Best of both worlds DLSR/Camcorder Hybrid. If they truly have fixed the Moire and Aliasing, then i'm sold.
  • AriaAria
    I got a kick out of these Sony promotional shot:

    Photobucket

    It seems to me that they do clearly understand what many out here have been doing and want to target the DSLR market with what they think is a better solution for the filming community.
  • BillBill
    No one has mentioned in-camera headphone audio monitoring -- as far as I can tell, the A77, NEX-5 and NEX-7 are missing this feature (as does my GH2 and every other DSLR form-factor camera). This is a big deal for me - no more workarounds to monitor the sound going into the camera.

    If the VG20's HDMI out is clean and Sony's new processor solves the moire problem, I may have to cross over to the Dark Side.
  • Ian_TIan_T
    @EOSHD "VG20 certainly is an improvement on the VG10 and I am looking forward to it, but first I am getting the NEX 5N.

    Low light performance is superb

    Just an FYI (.. and I understand we don't shoot rez charts for a living) :-) but...the following rez charts compared the NEX-5N 50/1080p detail with th Olympus E-P3 and Panasonic TM700 and it doesn't look too good for that Sony camera.

    Sony
    http://img1.focus-numerique.com/focus/articles/1294/sony-nex-5n-test-review-video-detail.jpg


    Olympus
    http://img1.focus-numerique.com/focus/articles/1261/olympus-e-p3-test-review-extrait-video-1080.jpg


    Panasonic
    http://img1.focus-numerique.com/focus/articles/1077/panasonic-tm700-mire-1920.jpg


    From:
    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.focus-numerique.com%2Ftest-1294%2Fcompact-sony-nex-5n-mode-video-17.html

    sony.jpg
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    ol.jpg
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    pan.jpg
    620 x 300 - 44K
  • AriaAria
    @Ian_T, I'm not sure how much weight to put on this early testing. I want to see production models and more in depth testing in video footage rather than charts. It is a bit concerning to see such poor showing as these pics indicate, but until I see more real footage by people that know what they're doing I can't really say how much faith I can put in these early tests.

    The thing that does concern me is that there are so many disappointing images so far. I haven't seen anything that's horrible. A lot of it looks good, just not ground breaking.

    There wasn't much wrong with the image quality of the VG10 except for the Moire and I would guess that the VG20 improves on that as well as low light and frame rates. I can't wait to see some real footage from shipped models.
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev
    Andrew short and hard view on VG20



    How does the NEX 5N compare to Sony’s higher end dedicated video cameras?

    Well first of all let me tell you that the VG20 is an absolute piece of crap. This is a camera that is meant to sit below the FS100 and is a good $1700 more expensive than the NEX 5N and yet it has a plethora of disadvantages compared to the diminutive mirrorless camera. It brings so little to the party for that extra $1700 namely a top handle and better audio. But in adding those, it also brings massive operational and build quality frustrations to the hapless operator.

    The VG20 has just 3 meaningful physical buttons on the body, the other 4 are rather wasted on small things like EVF/LCD toggle and cannot be programmed. You have just one absolutely tiny scroll wheel at the bottom of the camera behind the LCD in an awkward place and it feels cheap and loose. Working with this camera is hell. The 3 meaningful buttons are Iris, Shutter Speed and a button to toggle between AF and MF. You find yourself heavily relying on the touch screen every time you use it, there isn’t even a physical button for the main menu on the camera so to change ANYTHING that doesn’t have a dedicated button you have to delve into the PlayStation style menu on the screen. There’s a button on the top for expanded focus, but you can’t assign peaking to a button! Most shockingly of all there isn’t even a dedicated Gain or ISO button. The touch screen doesn’t seem as responsive as the capacitive one on the NEX 5N either and build quality is exceptionally plasticy.


  • stoneystoney
    Wow. This time I like his review. No holds barred.
  • AriaAria
    I'd like to get more clarification on the VG20 features because Sony lists "sunset" as one of the options:

    "Six Creative Style settings

    Control how the camera processes your images with six finishing styles: Standard, Vivid, Portrait, Landscape, Sunset and B&W. You can even fine-tune contrast, saturation, and sharpness to your personal taste."

    Also Sony lists "Gain" as one of the manual adjustments that can be adjusted by Hot Key or the Jog Dial:

    "Full Manual Control

    With full manual control of Iris, Shutter Speed, Gain, White Balance , Recording Volume, via convenient hot keys and jog dial, you will be able to adapt to almost any lighting condition to get the best shot."

    Anyone know more about just how the Creative styles work and how he Gain is adjusted via the Jog Dial?

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