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Spain: Unemployment and pointless street protests
  • With more than 6 million people unemployed for the first time, Spain's jobless rate shot up to a record 27.2% in the first quarter, the National Statistics Institute said Thursday, in another grim picture of the recession-wracked country.

    The agency said the number of people unemployed rose 237,400 the first three months of the year, a 1.1% increase from the previous quarter. The number of people out of work stood at 6.2 million, first time the number has breached 6 million.

    yet

    Anti-government protestors would stage another attempt to "Surround Congress," just 24 hours before the latest round of economic and fiscal reforms, which will almost certainly include further spending cuts, are to be announced by the government of Mariano Rajoy.

    In reality it is all completely pointless. I mean here asking elites to stop destruction of middle class. This guys really never understand good words.

  • 21 Replies sorted by
  • Just to check-in. Extraordinary amount of houses/apartments up for sale over in Spain. And everywhere Ive been property is way overvalued - like 2008 prices. So many half-builds too.

  • To understand better the spanish situation, everybody can check and watch my documentary about Indignados and houses, here

    The documentary was shooted in the 2011, reality it's changed in the past 2 years..

  • Driftwood has a valid point. Why are the prices still very high? Besides nobody can buy just one apartment or condo from an empty complex since as the only "owner" one would be responsable for all the running costs of that complex if the selling party would default.

    Miko why don't you make a 3 minute short out of your film? For my attention span 50minutes is way too long.

  • If I am not mistaking, the spanish goverment has introduced new, very high taxes for the house owners- the taxes in pure rip-off style. Many foreigners who bought the houses in Spain to spend their vacations time there sell now their houses as well. Could be a try to acchieve an initial price, but it is utopian dream right now.

  • In reality it is all completely pointless

    I couldn't disagree more Vitaliy. seems to me one thing is expecting a single action changing the entire universe (which actually is conjectured right), other thing is doing nothing, from a social-dynamic point of view. Status quo is what it is, yes elites, yes middle class and YES utopia... have you never taste the bittersweet gin-utopia?

    A trailer of a crowfounded doc a friend of mine did, so PapaRomeo won't suffer :P I Love you, I respect you, I need you

  • @PapaRomeo sorry but for me it's impossible to edit a 3 minute version. Was complicated even to cut for 50 minutes, there are so many histories in the spanish protests now..

  • I couldn't disagree more Vitaliy. seems to me one thing is expecting a single action changing the entire universe (which actually is conjectured right), other thing is doing nothing

    No. I just told that current form clearly do not bring any results.

  • clearly do not bring any results.

    (0% sarcasm) how come can you be so sure it didn't bring ANY results? have you been there? have you dug under the crust? did you watch the videos? did you see the people (like the gradpas) who fought many years before us, living again? what results and in what "speed" or proportions are we (citizens who are fucked up beyond reasoning) expected to get? it seems very easy to discredit someone/something at a (keyboard) stroke, have you got any improvements/suggestions Vitaliy? between guerrilla fight and poetry there are many many people and their smaller stories... and yes we cannot eat a soup of stories, but they're important.

    sorry for so many questions, I'd wish we could talk these things with a cold beer and time. all good

  • @maxr

    Can you just list us results? Did they managed to stop throwing our people by banks? Reduce unemployment?

  • I'm probably one who holds the minority view here, but it seems clear that we’re moving headlong into a global socialist model with the potential for increased corruption and misappropriation of the people’s funds. Increased government involvement means less personal liberty in my humble opinion. Personally, I prefer a more Ayn Rand-style libertarian model where people keep more of the fruits of their labor and government doesn’t exploit the practice of inefficient redistribution to maintain it's corrosive grip of power over the people.

    “Government isn't the solution to our problems, government is the problem… Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them… The problem is not that people are taxed too little, the problem is that government spends too much… Man is not free unless government is limited…” – Ronald Reagan

  • Personally, I prefer a more Ayn Rand-style libertarian model where people keep more of the fruits of their labor and government doesn’t exploit the practice of inefficient redistribution to maintain it's corrosive grip of power over the people.

    Fun thing is that if you look at the countries with best life level you'll find that they they have much less individual freedom. Also now international corporations are implementing sthings proposed by old witch (I mean Rand).

    Suppose you are worker at the big firm. We fully removed corrosive goverment grip. No minimal wage exist. For each place it is huge fight with significant unemployed people who live in total poverty (remember, you removed corrosive grip to help inefficient workers!). You pay special monthly insurance for energency medical help and for crime protection. As salaries are very small due to big competition, only few can allow to pay for them. Huge areas exist with enourmous crime rates and constant epidemies. Do you need me to continue?

    Such position usually arise due to very weak knowledge of economics and history.

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev Well, perhaps so, but I prefer liberty and entrepreneurial opportunities. That worker can start his own business if left unfettered.

  • @Vitaliy

    Can you just list us results? Did they managed to stop throwing our people by banks? Reduce unemployment?

    jaj aja ja aj my friend (don't get offended) you make me laugh.
    it seems, at least to me, at long run most of social clashes (well, as we've got plenty space, let's include political doctrines, forms of government, social movements... or shall we just say civilizations) have become a fish with the tail in its mouth, but isn't that struggle what keeps us busy, growing, evolving (better or worse, perspective pending)? that said of course "those results" are also needed BUT that doesn't mean you're not getting any results gathering with other many hundred of thousands in same situation, discussing (implementing decentralized autonomous "solutions/patches/hacks*) and protesting, letting out your rage/indignation AND LOVE (yes I wrote love). anyway... chinese have a proverb that I feel better answer your questioning back ;)

    everybody knows the usefulness of useful, few know the usefulness of uselessness

    you may change uselessness for pointless :P

  • I do agree with firstbase and Reagan:)

    Minimum (wage) easily becomes the maximum. Today in EU it is socialism for the rich and corporations and capitalism for the poor and middle class. Middle class is bombarded by new fees, taxes and so on while all services are cripling down. Most government in EU are socialist based.

    In EU we sure have the same money but our languages, cultures and protective markets keep us as apart as ever before. Every country has still its own postal system, we do not have a single European cellular operator, our energy markets are controlled by local corporations but we do have idiotic laws for cucumbers and many other... We couldn't even agree on uniform traffic signs and laws...

    The day when EU sends only one team to Olympics or to FIFA World Championships Europe can call it self united but that will never happen. This proves that Europe is nothing like USA and EU is a forced project thus failing.

  • @firstbase As a student I started an entrepreneurial business 35 years ago, in Australia, which was essentially fully 'socialist' at that point. I had no problems with lack of "liberty." Those concerned with "liberty" need to start looking more carefully at history, IMO...

  • And here's even more analysis on the permanent slump in employment that Spain has entered. It seems clear that "austerity" is simply code for stealing more money from the 99% than before.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/04/spain-is-beyond-doomed-the-2-scariest-unemployment-charts-ever/275324/

    SpainUnemployment1-thumb-570x410-119984.png
    570 x 410 - 105K
  • Myself, and I'm a Spaniard still living in Spain (hope I can quit this place ASAP) FULLY AGREE with Vitaliy Kiselev. Protest have taken us nowhere. For example, there were a million signs which got a popular legislative iniative to the congress. What was asked was nonrecoursed debt, as actually, banks can take your home and still ask you to pay the debt.

    Now, the woman who did that (she's a lobbyist, let's not forget that neither, wether it's more ethical or not than the petrol lobby or whatever) is being called by our government nazist! Why so? 'Cause the government actually did nothing, and so, the association PAH (which defends those affected by the mortgage) called people to scratch politicians homes. They just go to where politicians live and start to scream and so on, no violence, totally legit.

    What's going on here, though some may not realize or say the truth about it, is total fascism due to:

    1. Lobby's power.
    2. Corruption in the form of parties being financed by those lobbies for let's say "favours" (you get that megaconstruction that will never get used, we then rebuy the property and sell it again due to bad administration, yet the state keeps the debt).

    As almost any democracy, for as long as parties are financed by those with the money, democracy for the poors is a dream, not the truth.

    For as the protests, I believe there are two ways of reading the social problem:

    1. This new protests which defend the use of violence are being very lowly followed. Protests are declining 'cause there's nothing to be done.
    2. There is a new kind of violent protest, that's not happened before (violence has been there in lots of protests, but not a call for violence).

    People is getting more and more angry, I believe lots of us have seen that peace has never brought drastic changes now needed, politically, socially, economically. What's gonna happen I don't know, but things are really wrong, going towards a 100% of social debt.

  • How's this all going to end in Eu? Is there a magical day somewhere in the future when all debt is paid? Ofcourse not but what is the next episode in this story? Or are we simply looking fwd a good fight again?

  • This video can be good to understand better:

  • I lived and worked in the EU for nearly 20 years. Life was a struggle. I came to the USA for 15 months, and love it here. People are motivated to work, and there are plenty of opportunities, both creative and in business. I made literally 10 times more money here this past year than I did in 2011 in the EU, and paid less tax.

    Now I am returning to the EU, because my working visa is ended, and I don't want to leave the USA. It really is good here. I'm dreading returning to Europe with no growth and no hope.

  • @ahbleza

    I think you can consult lawyers about ways to prolong our visa or get new one :-)