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Fiscal cliff
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Small personal opinions.

    1. Will it happen in most horrible form announced? Most probably not.
    2. Why all this drama? You need real reasons to rise taxes and cut spending. So it is much better to do so offering it as better solution compared to horrible one. Monkeys are primitive. They are basing most opinions on comparisons.
    3. Does it mean that real income will drop? Yes, this one is for sure. Global system will be slowly squeezing their teeth around your balls.
  • 15 Replies sorted by
  • zigizigizigizigi

    There is no other solution to postpone the collapse of the current system other than money printing. So whatever they'll bring in as a fiscal cliff solution, whatever they'll call it, regardless of all the the fuss and ado around it - it will be printing more in essence. Which means gradual slide towards global Zimbabwe and ever tightening debt loop on the neck of the middle class.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @zigizigi

    I am not sure about this. I think that it can also happen is that it'll be long enought, and some global summit can declare that local countries are bankrupt and in order to save population it is now required to move banks and many other functions to global level.

    Looking at many economics data, education changes, political mess, it seems like road to make global system. Where this guys could openly state to everyone who refuse to work for $200/month that they did not fit in competitive free market.

  • zigizigizigizigi

    It will happen, methinks. But not now. Rather later than sooner. I base my judgment upon this - the latest US National Intelligence Council trends report:

    http://gt2030.com/

    That's quite a vague document overall full of indecision but with few curious insights. So I believe that this indecision reflects the current mood of the ruling elite. They claim there that the world will not survive the next Lehman Bros type of a collapse. That means these guys are just afraid of letting it happen. Too unpredictable, too chaotic, too uncontrolled. They don't want US to turn into post Katrina New Orleans where gangs of looters were rambling.

    They also claim there that "other" (other than US intelligence and US elites behind this report) parties of the global game have no solution either.

    There will be an end to this game for sure, the default is inevitable. But what they are trying to do, I believe, is to try to do a soft landing rather than a crash. So my point is that they will try to kick the can down the road for as long as they can before they let the domino to fall.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Again, issue that you don't see proper exit is because you are looking at wrong things.

    If you look at global scale, all will be perfectly clear.

  • jrdjrd

    There is no other solution to postpone the collapse of the current system other than money printing.

    Do you have any idea how many years people have been saying this? Does the failure of the collapse to occur represent the perversity of reality, in refusing to cooperate with an outcome so obvious to so many people, or is it the failure of people who don't, or refuse, to understand the nature of modern economies and that economics is not a morality play?

  • zigizigizigizigi

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev If we were talking about Greece of Spain with 25% jobless with economy virtually not existing - I would agree. These nations ARE ready for the "helping hand" of the banksters. The US? Not yet. Things are not bad enough for people to accept the "new world order" or whatever you name it. Not as good as before but far from blatantly dire.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    The US? Not yet. Things are not bad enough for people to accept the "new world order" or whatever you name it.

    If you carefully research data, it is US, UK and Japan that will be among leaders of this process.

    As for Greece, Spain and Italy, they had been easy and public targets because they are known for orginized protests. hence, you need to make peopl used to all this life and who that protests won't help.

    Not as good as before but far from blatantly dire.

    No, it is so near you can't even imagine.

  • zigizigizigizigi

    @jrd

    I'm far from judging what happens from any ethical standpoint. What I mean is pure technical analysis. In theory there are two ways to get over the crisis - deflationary and inflationary. From what we see: QE1, QE2, two rounds of operation Twist, QEternity and QE4 it is pretty obvious that money printing, or inflationary scenario is what was accepted by financial elite. The problem with this is that as soon they stop inflating the system the whole domino will collapse in a blink of an eye. Will printing cure the crisis eventually? Sure it won't. It is just a temporal way to prop up the system. Will this bubble burst eventually? Sure it will. So the FED is stuck between a rock and a hard place. They collapse IS going to happen but the only thing they can do is try to postpone it a bit by another round of money printing. They just can't stop.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @zigizigi

    Btw, thing that you wrote is present in each and every media. It is wrong :-)

  • zigizigizigizigi

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev Well I think you read too much zerohedge et al. We're on the verge of collapse... Gimme a break. Alternative media have been telling that for years. Sure we still are. But I think that apocalyptic audience underestimates how far the banksters can push the system STILL being on the verge of collapse. This far:

    image

    This pack of Zimbabwe dollars is just enough to buy an apple. So my point that the hyperinflation hasn't even started yet. We're just at the beginning of it.

    My prognosis that they will come with some sort of solution to fix the debt limit and unwind the hyperinflation spiral. The collapse is likely to happen before the end of this decade but certainly not THIS fiscal cliff.

    Let's see.

    20081202_zimbabwe_inflation_rate_4jpg.jpg
    450 x 437 - 47K
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @zigizigi

    I fail to catch your logic as you are going back and forth.

    Generally, my position and words have nothing in common with ZeroHedge. It is Austrial school site, supported by gold/silver dealers. And their words is exactly that it'll be hyperinflation, hence run and buy gold.

    My position is not the same.

  • jrdjrd

    @zigizigi

    They collapse IS going to happen but the only thing they can do is try to postpone it a bit by another round of money printing.

    That's exactly what's been said for hundreds of years, going back to the emergence of fiat currency. Maybe your concern isn't ethical, but I'd still argue it's based on a sense of what's just and what isn't -- "printing money", as you call it, offends the sensibilities of lots of people who buy into the Austrian school. The world shouldn't be able to work that way, according to those who embrace that view. The fact that it clearly does, never seems to deter anyone.

    None of us are much good at predicting the future, but this particular prediction -- doom any day now, because the precious metals fetish isn't being satisfied -- has been current for so long, that you'd think folks would give up on it already.

    hyperinflation hasn't even started yet. We're just at the beginning of it.

    It's always just beginning. Tomorrow. Or next month. Or next year. Or sometime in 2100. How long do you have to be wrong, before questioning the model which insists it has to happen?

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Messages deleted.

    This topic is not about loved democrats vs respublicans thing.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    In a rare New Year's session at around 2 a.m. EST (0700 GMT), senators voted 89-8 to raise some taxes on the wealthy while making permanent low tax rates on the middle class that have been in place for a decade.

    Via: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/01/us-usa-fiscal-idUSBRE8A80WV20130101

    Mod always need drama. Some theater. They always must think that best solution had been found and it is in their interest. Of course their life will be worse, but not as much as it could be. They think so. How stupid.

  • jfilmmakerjfilmmaker

    Agree. It's hard convincing other Americans how much we're getting screwed. I can bring up tax charts from the 50's, 60's, and 70's. I can compare our tax rates against the Australian system, which seem to be doing quite fine. No matter how much I explain, people are lost in the stories told by the main stream. No one's willing to organize. No one wants to take action. It's as if the guilletine needs fall first... But it never complete falls, it's more like an anaconda, pushing out all the air.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/robert-reich/fiscal-cliff-deal_b_2390067.html?utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false

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