Personal View site logo
Make sure to join PV Telegram channel! Perfect to keep up with community on your smartphone.
BMCC vs CANON C100 w/ Atomos Ninja 2
  • Is there a topic about this yet?

  • 26 Replies sorted by
  • Not much of a topic. I think most know the image is superior and more gradable with the BMCC because of the 13 stops of DR and 12bit RAW, and the lower cost and $1600 worth of free software are also a plus. The overpriced 8bit C100/Ninja combo will be better with things like the a 35mm sensor, better low light, ND wheel, replaceable batteries, and easily accessible external buttons. Both need support like rails and what not. It's pretty easy to know the difference. It just depends on what type of shooting you do and how big of a wallet you have.

  • Bmcc wins for sure. no need to discuss

  • I think @Brian2020 pretty much summed up what our expectations are from both cameras. As far as a topic for the original question, I don't think there was one before.

  • What about if magic lantern was thrown in to the mix?

    Also, doesn't the c100 have XLR input?

    I have the BMCC preordered but it still has LOTS of missing specs. Having to have a 3rd party battery and viewfinder. Along with lacking a variety of frame rates, and the ability to delete a clip from within the camera. Another issue I have is that the BMCC SSD requires a Mac to format, and windows requires a software download. Some of its weak points may be fixed with a firmware update, but it should come out of the box with basic camera necessity's. RAW footage is going to swallow HD space and if you don't have a top notch computer capable of running Resolve it's pretty much useless. So, a $3000 camera really isn't JUST $3000. I'm going to have to purchase a new computer, several SSDs, 3rd party battery, and eventually maybe a viewfinder.

    What really shocks me is that the C100 has some key features that the 300 is missing and also produces pretty much the same image.

  • Also think @brian202020 said thew words.

    If Canon would realize they've crippeled the C100 framrates too much, and updates via firmware. It can turn out to be an ok cam (especially for doc use). Now that the BM shuttle can record prores 422 hq, it's possible to have a more compact c100 rig with external recording aswell.

  • @GavitateMediaGroup

    You are correct, I didn't mention the lack of XLR's on the BMCC. $5 cables fix that tho. The audio is technically better on the BMCC since it's 24bit conpaired to the C100's 16bit. The C100 does have a leg up on phantom power tho.

    As for the media needing to be Mac formatted this is only temperary until the next firmware update which will add exfat support like BMD Hyperdeck products, which the BMCC is based of of.

    You are also correct about the deleting of clips. The BMCC doesn't do that, but neither does the Alexa.

    As for needing a hefty computer for the BMCC, this is untrue if you edit proxies. I run Resolve on an 09 MacBook Pro just fine. More harddrive space is needed of course, but if you transcode to Cineform RAW on import you will save space and in only a few jobs you'll pay off Cineform in HDD space alone.

  • @Brian202020 So right. And let's not forget you always have the option to record 10bit 4:2:2 ProRes or DNxHD instead of RAW with this camera, which is still way better than what the C100 can do. It's even better than what the C300 offers!

  • You guys are leaving out the abilities of the ninja 2 with c100. As for the Alexa not being able to delete clips in cam, anybody that can afford an Alexa can afford all the storage they need. I really would like to see a shoot out with these cameras, ninja 2 included. I'll make my final decision on the c100 if magic lantern is put to it.

  • Sounds like you've already made a decision? Why start a thread?

    What Brian says is pretty accurate, and given the price of the C100 I don't think it's a worthwhile business venture over Blackmagic.

  • I have the BMCC ordered, I was just getting others thoughts on C100. The BMCC has maybe 3 or 4 better qualitys than the c100, but it's not like the BMCC IS the better choice for EVERY situation. I would probably consider a red one over c100 since after all the extras for red one have been purchased it would come out to same cost as c100, but it seems like the red one is slowly being fazed out, but it's still an amazing camera. The red just doesn't seem too convenient for the average gig.

  • Well, really - I don´t understand the complaints about storage and the BMD cam. If the gig pays or if it´s important then you got money for the storage too. It should not be an issue. If you can get a semi-pro camcorder AND the bmd cam for what you´d pay for a c100 + external recorder, then what´s the fuss about?

    If you don´t see the point in the BMD (including workflow) you might as well go with something else. Simple as that.

    Anyway, IMO the FS700 seems a lot better value for money than the c100 anyway..

  • By all accounts the viewfinder in the C100 is rubbish so it could still be necessary to bolt on an external viewfinder as well as an external recorder (or the Ninja2 loupe when it comes out). You could buy a BMCC + a full frame HDSLR + a Ninja2 for the same money as the C100.

    My only concern is that lots of the BMCC footage looks really dull to me often with a green caste. Look at the recently release footage from he who shall not be named. I expect in these cases poor grading is the culprit but you never know till you have one in your hands.

    I'm about to commit to one of these cameras but I change my mind four times a day. C100 suits my type of work better but an unusable viewfinder in a £5000 camera is just not acceptable.

  • @Duncanario

    Really, you can´t go after a so-so vid a certain mr put out to form an opinion on something as subtle as color bias. Besides, it´s moldable just like you want it if you are comfortable with grading (something the certain mr clearly isn´t).

    Download some raw files for yourself and have a look. What really nailed it for me was the sunny forest vids somebody put out.. shot mostly underneath foliage on a bright sunny day. It has enough DR, simply put. :)

  • @duncanario if you are talking about the footage of the abandoned amusement park, I'm pretty sure it was intended to have that kind of "creepy" feeling look to it.

    @rrrr I am not ANTI BMCC, it's an amazing camera for the price, and the price is the only reason I am getting one, if it was a $6k camera I would pass on it for sure. I like a simple process, and as camera technology progresses it should continue to follow suite with being more powerful, and less and less complicated. The only real workflow issue I have with the BMCC is the hours and hours of transcoding IF raw is what I shot. 9 times out of 10 I probably won't shoot in raw, I'll only use it for specific gigs, as will most people I'm sure.

  • @GravitateMediaGroup

    As with the hacked GH2, the magic lantern will not affect HDMI output. Hacked settings will configure output that is written directly to CF media, but HDMI is pretty independent.

    At this point, we could only assume that BMCC will yield better results via HDMI-SDI output. I am sure someone has tested both the C300 and BMCC with an ext recorder, so it will be instructive to hear from him. With the C300, we know for sure it works very much like any conventional camera, but the BMCC remains a strange animal. At this point, I won't adopt it even though I have tested one. In the context of a long drawn film shoot, it is still an unknown quantity. The last I checked, they cant even get clean chips from the right suppliers

  • So, a $3000 camera really isn't JUST $3000. I'm going to have to purchase a new computer, several SSDs

    Get Cineform RAW for $250 and you can edit on laptop from 2009. That or shoot 10-bit ProRes or DNxHD and keep your $250 (still beats 8-bit). Sandisk Extreme SSD 240GB - $183.99 shipped (as of now on Amazon)

    3rd party battery

    Ebay 12v 6500mah battery pack for $33 shipped. This is cheaper than an extra battery for the C100.

    and eventually maybe a viewfinder.

    SmallHD DP4 with eye piece $599 + $50 HD-SDI to HDMI converter

    Also, doesn't the c100 have XLR input?

    Tascam DR-40 - $200

    This totals $1315.99 at most. With BMCC, it adds up to $4415.99 which is more than 3 grand less than $7,500 (C100 with Atmos Ninja 2). You also get Resolve and a higher quality viewfinder. If you don't need the viewfinder and can live with "only" 10-bit 422 ProRes, then you are only looking at $416.99 extra. Perhaps you still have a separate audio recorder from your DSLR days, then you are only looking at $216.99 extra.

    The C100 would be tempting at $5,000 as I really like the built-in camera features it has, but ultimately it's hard to justify $6,500 for 8-bit when there's 12-bit RAW 2.5k for $3,000 out there.

    At this point, we could only assume that BMCC will yield better results via HDMI-SDI output. I am sure someone has tested both the C300 and BMCC with an ext recorder, so it will be instructive to hear from him.

    The BMCC records 10-bit 422 ProRes and DNxHD internally, so I don't see why anyone would use an external recorder.

    The last I checked, they cant even get clean chips from the right suppliers

    Check again.

  • Yeah, the word is they are good to go now

  • with being more powerful, and less and less complicated

    This seems exactly what bmd have done. Not for broadcasting stuff, but for making movies. Workflow is extremely straight forward with DNxHD and PRORES options.. no transcoding needed, and easy-to-edit formats straight out of the box (less taxing than heavily compressed footage) So you might as well look at RAW as an option rather than the baseline depening on how / what you plan to use it for.

    Personally, I have issues trusting HDMI for recording. It works, no doubt, but a slight transmission interruption (which is not uncommon with HDMI ports / connections) can screw things up.

    With that said, I have not tried either camera yet so I can´t say anything definite. I´m all for trying cameras out before settling for a certain product.

  • You can buy locking HMDI cables now.

  • @rrrr Well, what I mean by less complicated is the process of transcoding RAW "IF" it's what you decide to do. Not that it is BMD Fault that RAW is so powerful. Basically it's not a complicated workflow, just time consuming if you choose to take that route.

  • @GravitateMediaGroup IMO it is OK to take that time if the product (destination) so requires. It´s also no worse than rendering a big output f.i. In other words - just something you take into account and do during off hours. Obviously It´s not a viable workflow for all projects! (unless you get paid accordingly)

    @nomad I haven´t tried those yet but I will..! HD-SDI seems a lot more rugged though.

    For me, the single most convenient thing with the BMD is that I KNOW it will work with my lens investments thus far except for one single lens. For an EF mount camera I´d need to invest a lot more than the camera alone. (obviously not all at once but over time).

    For someone with a range of EF lenses (or lenses with longer flange focal distance mainly) it might not be as clear cut obviously.

  • I'm mostly a postproduction guy, and the BMCC is the best camera for green screen at low price, 12bit 2.5K raw, oh my.. my mouth is drooling. No other camera can close to that, and comparing against the C100 is useless at least do you need to shoot just corporate and web videos.

  • I'm not a big fan of Canon, but I am a fan of the new cinema series stuff, they are just unrealistic as far as price. I'll just wait a few years for Canon to take more losses and watch the price fall from the sky. When BMCC hits the market full throttle I think canon will really feel the pressure.

  • @RRRR [@nomad I haven´t tried those yet but I will..! HD-SDI seems a lot more rugged though.]

    That's because it is a professional interface unlike the consumer targeted HDMI. I will never fully trust HDMI for acquisition.