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Are zoom lenses ok for narrative work?
  • azza_actazza_act

    Heh guys, I'm shooting a feature next year and I'm starting to plan a little on the equipment I'll need. It's a indie comedy and it will be shot with a small crew using GH2/3s etc.. I have a nice range of primes ( including the olly 12mm 2.0, notkon 25mm .095 and the rokinin 85m 1.4) Some of the scene/locations will be shot guerrilla style in concerts and music festivals. I know the pros and cons of using a zoom lens; barrel distortion, not as much sharpness than a prime and matte box issues but it would be handy ( and save time) to have the panny 12 -35mm 2.8 and the 35-100mm 2.8. Has anyone shot a narrative using zooms? Will anyone notice the difference? Is there a method of using zooms with matte boxes? Cheers

    Edit: I'll be using a dslr rig also.

  • 13 Replies sorted by
  • SangyeSangye

    Decent zoom lenses are fine for narrative work. Look at all of the high-budget features shot on Angenieux Optimos. Get a clamp-on matte box and use a lens support device. Cavision makes some nice clamp-on matte boxes, including a very affordable 3x3 model.

  • RRRRRRRR

    @azza_act: I take it you are the DoP and not just the camera guy? I think what you should think about here is a) what are you going for? (in terms of look, feel e.t.c) This is something you decide together with the director. b) what lenses, shots (angles, camera movement) a.s.o. will work in line with that goal? c) how do you light / what lighting can you use?

    You think about this for the movie as a whole as well as individual scenes e.t.c. and that should give you the answers you need.. Do not get stuck in the lens setups you already own if there is no other reason than practicality involved in the decision. For the money you save on shooting with dslrs, you could easily afford to rent an Optimo f.i. (unless you are planning a protracted shoot – when it might be better to look to buy equipment, even if it´s expensive, and sell when you are done). If you are the DoP you will need to make the outlines for the look you want and how to achieve it and if you have done that properly, you will be much more free to experiment or use creativity to solve problems on set / lead your team.

    There are no principal problems with using zooms.

  • JohnTollwannabeJohnTollwannabe

    For a zoom, you want one with a constant aperture... not a budget friendly lens.

  • fredfred27fredfred27

    Barry Sonnenfeld once told me that he wanted to try shooting an entire film with only primes. He went on to say that if he could only use one lens it would be a 21mm. He was refering to Super35's aperture which is just a bit larger than the GH2's. I also believe comedy is best shot wide.

  • azza_actazza_act

    @Sangye thanks mate, will have to look into the cavision matte box, I've also looked at this http://dfocussystem.com/dmattecomplete.

    @RRRR thanks for the sound advice.

    @fredfred27 yes I heard that a lot of directors like to use wide lens, even Martin scorsese.

    Edit: so by that logic... The 12-35mm 2.8 might looks like a good lens for run and gun shooting in a narrative context.

  • kavadnikavadni

    I think through necessity .. if you have to. It depends on whether you want to make 'moving pictures' or advance the fine art of 'zooming pictures'.

    I wouldn't do it, except if trying to emulate a section of ENG .. or mimic a B grader from the 70's

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @azza_act

    If you ask me, keep your primes and use mostly zooms.

    All this zooms/primes debate originate from long past when designing proper prime was quite easy, and designing fast sharp zoom was extremely hard (if possible at all). Add here not so good coatings and distortions issues and you have all to start big flame.

    Today you can design almost perfect zoom on computer software that can run very complex simulations. Latest lenses got improved coatings. Bodies got light faloff and distortions compensation in real time. But we still have bunch of baboons sitting on forums and claiming that you must be pure and must have big red asses only.

  • azza_actazza_act

    @kavadni It's a comedy so I doubt we'll be doing any "zooming". It's just for practical purposes of not haven't to change lenses in the middle of a huge crowd or a night on the streets. It's going to be fairly "guerrilla" in that sense. But I would say maybe 30% of the film will require that type of shooting. The other 70% is set in houses/ hotels and classrooms. Will have a least 2 GH2s and a GH3 (hopefully) on set, so I might throw the olly 12mm on the GH2 b- cam, then keep the 25mm on the GH3. Then just swap the cameras with the rig when I require a different lens.

  • kavadnikavadni

    @azza_act, yes.
    Expediency and necessity.

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev
    Being able to design a 'perfect zoom' on a computer, is a far cry from building it at an affordable price.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Being able to design a 'perfect zoom' on a computer, is a far cry from building it at an affordable price.

    I have big issue with term "affordable price". It is relative and highly subjective term.
    If you get proper basis (food, home and energy prices) and compare it to zoom lense you'll discover unique stuff. This things constantly become cheaper and better.

  • kazuokazuo

    @azza_act

    Use the zoom as you would a prime. Set it to the required focal length and shoot away. Filmmaking is not just about having great lenses, although a great piece of glass would take you a long way. I use zooms all the time when I have little time. Contax Zeiss makes great zooms that are as sharp as any primes. Take a look at the film Musgo. It was shot using Tokina zoom lenses if i am not wrong. It's so beautifully shot, i'd be happy to put that film on my showreel, anytime.

  • nomadnomad

    As long as you are not zooming while filming, there are not many problems. Even a non-parfocal zoom with changing aperture can be used as a variable 'prime'. Some zooms have not so nice bokeh, but the 12-35 2.8 by Panny seems quite OK. It only has problems of keeping light constant while zooming.

    I think Vitaliy is right about the "baboons sitting on forums", modern zooms can be very good. But another part of the objections against zooms comes from the video world, where many people are zooming while filming. This can look quite distracting, since human eyes don't have this feature ;-)

    An occasional gentle push-in (or -out) is fine for dramatic effect, but you don't need a very long zoom for that.

    Finally, it's much harder and more expensive to construct a good zoom for full frame (35mm still) than for µFT.

  • azza_actazza_act

    Thanks guys for your input, I think I mite just wait a while for a price drop for the 12-35mm or buy it with the GH3. Seems to me like a tool I can use. Cheers

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