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US: Good news from education front
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    image

    Via: http://news.investors.com/article/611887/201205171857/most-unemployed-are-college-grads-dropouts.htm

    jobeless.png
    600 x 465 - 185K
  • 10 Replies sorted by
  • ScotScot

    I wish they would have put up the true historical statistics. I'm sure there not a mirror image of each other as shown. Statistics are easy enough to manipulate without creating bogus data graphs.

    Ignore me wasn't paying attention (percentages) see Vitaliy's comment below

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    I'm sure there not a mirror image of each other as shown.

    You have huge problems with math or logic.

    Because from definition A+B=100% always, so B=100%-A that we see on this graph.

    So, I hope you'll take back stupid claims about manupulations.

  • jrdjrd

    Investors Business Daily -- a notorious right-wing publication, by the way -- claims the chart is adapted from Bureau of Labor Statistics data, but if you go to the BLS

    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t04.htm

    what the figures indicate is, as of April 2012, there are 6,969,000 unemployed non-college grads (includes no high school, high school diploma, some college but no 4-year degree) and 1,765,000 unemployed college grads (bachelor's degree and higher). Needless to say, these two numbers aren't equal.

    What IBD does is combine the figures for 2-year degrees, college drop-outs and 4-year bachelor degrees into one category, to get the 50%-50% measure. This is deceptive because the sheer number of people who fit this category is much higher than the group they compare it to . The number of people with some college (but no 4-year degree) and college degrees is 85,758,000, while the number in the other group (no college at all) is 47,963,000. So the percentage of unemployment among workers with no 4-year college degree is nearly twice what it is for college grads.

    In other words, the chart is misleading, as is usually the case with Investors Business Daily.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    In other words, the chart is misleading, as is usually the case with Investors Business Daily.

    I see your explanations as more misleading.
    Chart is quite clear in defining categories, and it's goal is show percentage among unemployed.

    So the percentage of unemployment among workers with no 4-year college degree is nearly twice what it is for college grads.

    And?
    Whole goal of the chart is to show the trend. And to tell the guys that chance for being umemployed after starting colledge becomes higher.
    Btw, if you look at the link below chart you'll find explanation and clear mention of drop-outs.

  • jrdjrd

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    It's reasonable enough to point out that the number of unemployed American college graduates is rising. However, the unemployment rate among that group is 3.7%, which is a much better number than for any of the no-college degree groups, which range from over 7% to over 12% (for high school drop-outs)

    That IBD choose to include, as one group, college grads and college-drop-outs, when they claim to be comparing the job prospects with a college degree versus having no-college degree suggests another agenda.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    However, the unemployment rate among that group is 3.7%, which is a much better number than for any of the no-college degree groups, which range from over 7% to over 12% (for high school drop-outs)

    This also require careful research considering good habit of throwing people out of the working force.

    And if you pair it with other statistic showing that it is middle class jobs that are disappearing, I think it'll make interesting picture.

  • ScotScot

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev LOL your right guess that's what I get for not paying attention and posting before my first cup of coffee. As to the general comment of manipulation of statistics it's not the math I ever question it's what they count or how they count it.

  • brianlucebrianluce

    The problem is the chart mixes apples with oranges -- as others have said. They combine people with "Some" college with people with 4 year degrees. That right there is the difference between lightning and lightning bug. Is it a smart comparison to lump together a guy with a Computer Engineering degree from MIT with a guy who took a single course in Art History from his local city college? This chart is propaganda.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    This chart is propaganda.

    Ouch :-) In this case it is strange propaganda that is suitable for leftist and right wing who wrote all this :-)
    And this propaganda is in line with all other jobs related statistics (add here problems with educational credits that are also only consequence of the same thing) showing same trend.

  • jrdjrd

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    The American right-wing is currently making the case -- most recently stated by Rick Santorum -- that American universities are full of communist professors who are indoctrinating pure-minded Americans into hating capitalism, and that a university education is an elitist notion which Americans should reject.

    So data which purports to show that a higher education doesn't lead to better job prospects is welcome, for obvious reasons, to Investors Business Daily. The trouble is, they don't, in fact, compare the job prospects or the unemployment rate of 4-year college graduates with workers who don't have 4-year college degrees. To get the result they want, they have to include 2-year community college graduates (not a valued degree, in the U.S.) and college-dropouts.

    Of course, if Investors Business Daily was making the case that the American middle-class is disappearing, thanks to efforts of big business in the U.S., they could present much the same data as proof. But even then, it might make more sense to make the comparison they claim they're making. It would be quite enough to show that the earnings of American college graduates have been dropping for years, and that unemployment is rising among that group. But that's something you won't read in Investors Business Daily.

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