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Sound Devices MixPre II 32bit float format recorders
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    image

    Specs

    sa9883.jpg
    800 x 449 - 50K
  • 24 Replies sorted by
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Manual https://cdn.sounddevices.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/MixPreII8.29.19.pdf

  • OrkanOrkan

    according to the manual only the mixpre 10 has timecode in-out, right?

  • DrDaveDrDave

    32 bit float for a field recorder is perhaps one of the stupidest things I have ever seen in a half century of recording.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @DrDave

    Can you be more specific on what is stupid?

    Idea with two ADC channels and making 32bit float files for easy and unclipabble workflow is superb.

    Thing that we see in audio industry very closely resemble with video industry, as here it is also patent ( Zaxcom ) that prevented to do this, but it seems like it comes to an end (but consider that Zoom recorder had been delayed!).

    In real field recording lot of levels issues happen, as well as lot of situation where clipping can happen due to audio person responsible or lack of such.

  • DrDaveDrDave

    It doesn't give you any more headroom as the noise floor intrudes before you hit 32 bits. Actually, it isn't the stupidest, come to think of it I have seen some pretty ridiculous things.
    I would rather see some improvements in the preamps and converters than more bits. Especially real Class A, etc.
    Here is the solution (idea copyright): a parallel circuit in isolation that records a bitmatched duplicate at a true lower level (before the signal gets gooped up), then switches over seamlessly if a clip is detected so that the recorded master has an edit in place for the clipped replacement, ready to roll, at the proper gain level, with a backup, of course.
    This is what we really need, not more bits. This would actually be pretty simple to engineer, especially if you are using surface mount stuff anyway.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @DrDave

    It doesn't give you any more headroom as the noise floor intrudes before you hit 32 bits. Actually, it isn't the stupidest, come to think of it I have seen some pretty ridiculous things.

    You got it all wrong.

    32 float is mainly used also due to handy editing and wide support and simple recording logic, not only for optimal size initial audio storage.

    Also last generation 32bit ADC chips are used in 2 channels here, and it is only microphone own noise that is limit.

    I would rather see some improvements in the preamps and converters than more bits. Especially real Class A, etc.

    Improvements with preamps in ADC come with it also.

    Here is the solution (idea copyright): a parallel circuit in isolation that records a bitmatched duplicate at a true lower level (before the signal gets gooped up), then switches over seamlessly if a clip is detected so that the recorded master has an edit in place for the clipped replacement, ready to roll, at the proper gain level, with a backup, of course.

    Sounds fuzzy.

    In reality it is two different gain preamps doing to two ADC channels. Whole thing with 32 bit float is that you don't do ANY switching, it just get part of info from one channel (lower bits of higher gain channel are being thrown out due to ADC properties) and another part from another.

  • DrDaveDrDave

    I could have it wrong, I suppose :)
    So here's the thing--let's say you make a zillion recordings, over decades, and you keep track of which ones are ruined.
    Some are ruined because of overs.
    But half of those overs occur before the signal hits the recording box. Most of these overload the mic, some overload the preamp that is in the mic (not the "preamp" as we know it, but the stuff inside the mic), some are in fact capsule or shell resonance, where the mic itself vibrates sympathetically. And buzzes. Or worse.
    And here is the solution: You buy quality mics that don't overload. You take the mics apart and apply acid free dampening silicon to the shells and test for ringing.
    You buy or make high quality Y cables.
    Then you apply basic redundancy at all levels. So, for example, instead of this 32 bit thing, which I'm sure is fine, you buy two Zoom F8 and connect them with a sync cable. They are totally locked. You set one at the standard -12dB, which gives you an effective 22 bits. You set the other one at -32 to -24dB, which gives you around 20 bits. Since it's a Zoom, you can add the limiters which gives you another 10dB or so, depending. You split the mic cables with the Y and hook up your two zooms. The mics go in before anything. Before the pres. Before the AD. Before the plastic knobs which may in fact have a cheap, wonky pot.
    This is the kind of redundancy we use for recording major symphony orchestras, where a mistake can be astronomically expensive.
    This will cover 99.99 percent of all issues.
    But what, you ask, can you do for the other 0.01 percent?
    You double up the main and spot mics with ones that have slightly different (and more forgiving) overload characteristics. And then you are set. Most people don't do the mic doubling. I have had one mic fail 20 years ago. I had it doubled. You can buy the CD.
    My parallel circuit idea is better, of course, but we still use two recorders. How you use the two recorders depends on how much insurance you want. If you don't use the Y cables, you add a degree of risk. It's small, but it's there. You can daisy chain the two recorders. A lot of ppl go that way. It's very reliable. It can definitely fail once in a blue moon.
    The fact is, it is so much cheaper than it used to be. Two Zooms cost less than a decent mic. Decent times.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    My parallel circuit idea is better, of course, but we still use two recorders. How you use the two recorders depends on how much insurance you want. If you don't use the Y cables, you add a degree of risk. It's small, but it's there. You can daisy chain the two recorders. A lot of ppl go that way. It's very reliable. It can definitely fail once in a blue moon.

    Well, it is called "kolhoz" here. I mean not good DIY like thing prone to issues, lot of things can go wrong if people are not professionals and not have lot of experience like you.

    Thing that you actually want is to have second SD card and some backup power.

    All else already present inside this recorders, as they do thing you described, use two preamps with gain offset and combine resulting signal throwing out some data from high gain channel.

  • MikeLinnMikeLinn

  • kellar42kellar42

    Nice timing and nice to see a lower price on top model!

  • IronFilmIronFilm

    according to the manual only the mixpre 10 has timecode in-out, right?

    Only one with a DEDICATED timecode I/O

    All the others reuse a 3.5mm stereo input for this purpose.

    Thing that we see in audio industry very closely resemble with video industry, as here it is also patent ( Zaxcom ) that prevented to do this, but it seems like it comes to an end (but consider that Zoom recorder had been delayed!).

    Not to the end, nope. Rather Sound Devices has filed their own patent, which does it a little different. (3 vs 2)

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Interesting article with samples

    Low Level Signal Resolution: 32-bit Float versus 24-bit - https://www.sounddevices.com/low-signal-32-bit-float/

  • MikeLinnMikeLinn

  • MikeLinnMikeLinn

  • MikeLinnMikeLinn

  • MikeLinnMikeLinn

  • MikeLinnMikeLinn

  • MikeLinnMikeLinn

  • MikeLinnMikeLinn

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    New firmware

    MixPre Series v5.00 (MixPre-3, -6, -10T, -3M, -6M, -10M, -3 II, -6 II, and -10 II)

    New

    • Support for optional MixAssist automixer plugin.
      MixAssist reduces ambient noise and reverberation when mixing and recording with multiple microphones. The advanced automixer incorporates multiple proprietary algorithms for reducing noise and phase artifacts, including Noise Adaptive Threshold, MaxBus, Last Mic Lock-on, Off-Attenuation, and NOMA (Number of Open Mic Attenuator). The MixAssist Plugin is available for purchase at the Sound Devices Plugin Store. (available for MixPre-3, -6, 10T, -3 II, -6, II, and 10 II).
    • Flexible USB Output routing. The new USB Output routing matrix allows control of what signals are sent to the computer and in which order they get sent. The matrix allows for mix-minus and selection between pre-fade vs. post-fade isolated channels (M models and music projects allow post-fade only).
    • Sound Reports added to MixPre-3, MixPre-6, MixPre-3 II, and MixPre-6 II.
    • Expanded list of cameras supported for HDMI timecode and triggers including cameras from Blackmagic, Canon, Nikon, and Fujifilm in addition to the already supported Sony and Panasonic cameras.
    • USB Hub support: connect and simultaneously use a USB keyboard, USB Controller, and a USB Thumb-drive via a USB Hub. Note: USB Drives are supported by the MixPre-3 II, MixPre-6 II, MixPre-10 II, MixPre-10M, and MixPre-10T.
    • USB Auto-Copy copying status now more prominent: status is displayed on all meter view status bars and by a flashing record LED in stop mode.
    • USB Auto-Copy can now be suspended when powering down the MixPre and auto-resume when powered back on. 
    • Quicker front panel knob response for low latency fader adjustments
    • Improvements to reduce power consumption. Unused channels can be set to Off when not in use to maximize battery life. 
    • USB Audio Class 1 (Windows without ASIO driver) now supports up to 96 kHz sample rates. 
    • Music Mode (MixPre M models) now allow USB returns from a computer to be routed directly to headphones, bypassing the need to route it to a channel.
    • Channel screen usability improvements for more immediate access to channel gain and solo.
      • Trim gain is automatically selected when entering a channel screen
      • New menu option to automatically solo the channel when entering a channel screen
      • Removed time out when setting parameters

    Fixed

    • Various improvements to USB Drive Auto-Copy feature. 
    • Various improvements to SD Card performance.
    • Rare instances where MixPre boots up with a black screen have been eliminated. 
    • MixPre-10T and MixPre-10 II no longer ignore record triggers from Aux In timecode. 
    • MixPre recorded files no longer show 00:00:00:00 timecode and duration values in the Wingman Take List. 
    • Rare instances of Left track meter activity freezes no longer occur. 
    • System lock up no longer occurs when attempting to load a music project from a formatted SD card. 
    • Audible click no longer occurs when turning the slate mic on or off.
    • Sound Report Bit Depth field for 32-Bit files are no longer left blank.
    • Record Run values are now properly held over power cycles. 
    • System lock up when quickly entering record after opening a pre-existing project no longer occurs.
    • Power switch is no longer unresponsive after rapidly switching between music and audio projects. 
    • System lock up no longer occurs when turning on pre-roll with no armed tracks.
    • Front panel knob levels between 91 and 96 dB in 32-Bit mode no longer attenuate the signal. 
    • Improved switching between 32-Bit Float, Ambisonics, and Music modes to improve overall system stability.  
    • Various noises have been eradicated when tone generator is active and changes are made to sample rates or transport states. 
    • Noise on channels when restoring defaults from Ambisonics mode has been eliminated. 
    • Timecode jam screen on MixPre-10T and MixPre-10 II no longer freezes when there is no incoming timecode signal present.
    • USB Controllers can no longer mute a channel in basic audio mode. 
    • Extra channels (5 and 6 on MixPre-6/II and 9 and 10 on MixPre-10T/II) no longer send live signal instead of the recorded track to the headphone monitor during playback. 
    • Extra channels 9 and 10 on a MixPre-10T/II no longer switch to off after activating the slate mic.  
    • Improved the accuracy of the Timecode Jam menu difference display. 
    • Various system enhancements and improvements.

    Wingman v5.00

    • Sound Reports are now available for MixPre-3/II and MixPre-6/II.
    • MixPre recorded files no longer show 00:00:00:00 timecode and duration values in the Wingman Take List. 
    • Track arm indicators no longer flicker green during playback in music projects.
    • Rare application crash when splitting recording no longer occurs. 
    • Android Take List is now called File List to be consistent with iOS version. 
    • False Take button is now grayed out in Basic mode on Android.
    • Various display fixes for iOS Dark Mode. 

    Known Issues

    • Sound Reports are not available on original MixPre-3 and MixPre-6.
    • USB Output routing matrix is linking Track L with channels 1-10 on MixPre-10T and MixPre-10 II.
  • IronFilmIronFilm

    This is another BIG firmware update from Sound Devices.

    I reckon (in my personal opinion) that Sound Devices has finally caught up with the Zoom F series. (as they've had several big firmware updates now since their original launch, plus Gen2 is an advancement over the original as well)

    Except when it comes to reliability (lack of dual media, lack of diversity in powering in some models, and also Sound Devices has had a more troubled history with bugs/issues with the MIxPre series), price / value for money, and ergonomics (but this can be a bit subjective. And in one particular aspect, their overall small size of the MIxPres can be a positive for some people)

    So yeah, pick your poison, Zoom F series or MixPre series! Really is splitting hairs now, half a dozen of one, six of the other.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    MixPre Series v6.00

    New

    • 32-bit float USB audio streaming. Requires Mac OS Catalina (version 10.15+) and an application that supports 32-bit float. Find out if your application of choice supports 32-bit float audio streaming here. (MixPre II Series only)

    Fixed

    • MixAssist can now be enabled during Playback with ReMix on. (MixPre-3, MixPre-6, MixPre-10T, MixPre-3 II, MixPre-6 II, MixPre-10 II)
    • HDMI record triggers no longer create several recordings if the cable was connected while the camera was actively recording. (MixPre-3, MixPre-6, MixPre-3 II, MixPre-6 II)
    • Various system enhancements and improvements.

    https://www.sounddevices.com/download/

  • GrimorGrimor

    I'm trying to make a DIY trigger to run mixpre 3 II and Panasonic lumix with no hdmi trigger function (aka G80) at the same time. So I use a adafruit trinket pro configured as usb keyboard to send keypress ctrl+R and ctrl+S. (sound devices shortcuts for record and stop) They will be wired together this way: mixpre-usb-trinket-Lanc remote-lumix. Even if the trinket works as keyboard on windows and Android, and makes the keypress command correctly, don't know why mixpre doesn't seen to detect it, or recognize it as keyboard. Any Insights??

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