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GH5 - HLG workflow & direct rendering HLG to HDR display ???
  • Been struggling to find a way to render unedited HLG clips on PC using MPC-HC from a GTX1050x to a Sony XBR43x800D via HDMI 2.0b. It plays back perfectly smooth, but in the flat recorded look. Trying to find a renderer and or shader that will expand the image to proper HDR on my monitor.

    Secondarily, looking to see if Resolve 14 Studio, or Edius 9 is the better software for working with this type of HLG and HEVC 6k footage. I've been using Movie Studio 14 and Vegas Pro 14, but it won't work with anything larger than 4K and I need to move on.

    Suggestions appreciated. A conversation on the nuances of this new world of HDR would be beneficial for all of us I suppose as well.

    Cheers, Pete

  • 12 Replies sorted by
  • I've been using Movie Studio 14 and Vegas Pro 14, but it won't work with anything larger than 4K and I need to move on.

    As far as I understand Vegas 15 now scales to 4K properly 6K footage.

    Also I am not sure if HLG is supported at all.

    You can check madVR, usually it is most advanced renderer under Windows.

    Edius 9 also focused on HDR, but I think HLG is not supported for now.

    https://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/14402/hdr-new-marketing-idea#Item_25

    You can check video in HDR topic about HLG.

    This thing makes Rec 709 videos even less gradable as cram all highlight data into tiny space in top bits.

  • I am too interested playing GH5 HLG files with a LUT or curve or adjustment making the result looking good in modern bright and vivid TV (not HDR).

    I have got quite good results when playing HLG file from computer. HLG uses limited luminance scale 64-960 and makes darker gamma than normal profiles. It records much more stuff in highlights. To look good in my TV I use lighter gamma and I adjust contrast and brightness to max and add color to 80%. The result is not accurate but it looks stunning and "HDR like".

  • Thanks Vitaliy! I appears that fcpx might be able to expand hlg aready. Also in another group, a guy showed a pic from mpc-hc he claimed was hlg and it looked stunning. he hasn't answered back yet as to what renderer and shader he is using though, or if it was run through an NLE before. I'll check back in if I hear how he was getting there @Vesku

    Cheers, Pete

  • If you want to actually display in HLG HDR on an HDR TV, then the TV needs to be in HLG mode. The TV interprets the HLG color space and does the rendering.

    Make sure your Sony XBR43x800D has the latest firmware. HLG support was added recently.

    Edit: after some reading, HDMI 2.0b officially supports HLG static metadata that should automatically switch your TV into HLG mode, when present. HDMI 2.0a apparently can support HLG metadata too, when the HDMI output device's software allows that. DaVinci Resolve can produce video streams with PQ ST2084 HDR metadata. I'm not sure if it supports HLG metadata yet. So your options will be one of these:

    1) Find an app or device that can add HLG metadata to your HDMI signal. Here are some metadata injectors that support HLG:

    2) Manually switch the TV to HLG mode. I'm not sure which TVs support that.

    3) Convert from HLG to PQ HDR. DaVinci Resolve Studio (not free) can do this, and it supports PQ metadata over HDMI 2.0a using certain DeckLink cards like the DeckLink 4K Extreme 12G and the DeckLink Mini Monitor 4k.

    4) Convert HLG down to a standard BT.709-like color space. It won't be HDR anymore, but at least it will look right. A LUT, a special player, or Resolve can do this conversion.

    It's also possible to get HDR via YouTube. The video file needs to have the right HDR metadata embedded.

  • Edius 9 supports HLG of Sony and Panasonic completely https://www.edius.de/aktuell.html It is in german but still states the above.

  • Thanks for the update @AKED.

    I have been testing HLG output from the GH5 via HDMI and via uploads to youtube. It appears that only the MP4 HEVC - 72mbps 420 10bit 4K HLG is recognized by youtube as HDR content. None of the other flavors of GH5 video that use the HLG profile show up as HDR out there. None of those that said they were HDR as I was uploading have shown up as HDR's and not even rec709 expanded hlg. Just showing the flat raw hlg for all flavors for me. Here's a sample I put yesterday from my shop.

    As for HDMI output of hlg straight to HDR display, that is not really useful either. The GH5 appears to only be able to output rec709 corrected hlg via hdmi regardless of what display it is connected to. It's not bad looking on my HDR display, but nothing to write home about. The 72mbps encoding is quite nice for such a low bit rate, but it's the rec2020 color space and expanded highlight I want to see.

    Still trying to find a way to get there on the PC :(

    Cheers, Pete

  • I wonder why HLG uses limited scale of luminance 64-940. It would be better hybrid profile if it would use 0-1024. The larger color scale and DR would automatically clip when using standard 16-235 display. Now the HLG looks way too dark and muted when using SDR rec709 display although the theory says it should look quite OK in rec709.

    Edit: Limited luminance scale is part of rec2020 standard and HLG uses rec2020.

  • A little update on my progress here. I now have my Sony Bravia showing HDR and HLG HDR content through the android app on the display via youtube, but still not through the PC via the GTX1050ti card. YouTube through the pc does not recognize my card and display as being either 4K or HDR. It will only display video's as 1440 and not 2160. Any suggestions on how to get youtube through pc to see my proper display properties and allow hdr content?

    Secondarily, has anyone done any curves and levels work on GH5 HLG footage in Vegas Pro 15 to properly expand for sdr display? I'd like to learn how to create my own presets rather than relying on LUTS that don't work very well in Vegas. I know it won't do any sort of meta data to show proper hdr content yet, but I'd still like to use hlg clips as higher dynamic range sdr in the rec709 realm. Suggestions there would also be appreciated.

    Cheers, Pete

  • Edit: n/m, I stand corrected about YouTube on the PC.

    One note, you can't expand HLG to SDR with just curves and levels, at least not properly to get the right colors. HLG uses BT.2020 primaries and SDR uses BT.709 primaries. The transformation you need is to linearize and then apply a matrix.

  • https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2017/12/chrome-63-64-media-updates

    Supports HDR playback on Windows 10 PC and Google Chrome 64.

  • @balazer, I get that, just trying to understand how to do it, specifically?

    @karuchie, I'll have to see if I can enable HDR in windows 10. Thanks for the link !!!