Un attended shooting with an A7s

RRRoger

Can the A7s be used successfully unattended?

How good is the FullTime AutoFocus? Will it track a moving person in moderate low light?

If I get one, I will also need a Native 24-70 Lens and Shogun Recorder for extended Videos. I am not interested in investing over $6000 for something that does not work, just to film my Bowling.

RRRoger

I have now used the A7s two times to shoot Video unattended of my Bowling. First one was so bad at f8 that I considered returning the camera. Second try was so much better at f4 (after many other adjustment) and recording 1080P30 to my Ninja II that I ordered more accessories including Slik table top TriPod, step up ring, 128GB Transcend Card, a two battery knockoff grip and a two battery + charger from Wasabi Power.

The GH4 is easier to use but the A7s is sharper and better in low light.

IronFilm

Are you shooting in APS-C mode? As you're shooting in F8 and bowling, I assume you'll want more DoF for this.

RRRoger

I have no Sony APS-C lens, therefore no reason to shoot in that mode.

Because it was my first A7s shoot, I assumed I would need more DOF. F8 gave me so much more moire that I am hesitant to ever use it in low light, especially with higher shutter speed. F4 and 60s was sufficient for my needs.

IronFilm

You don't have to have an APS-C lenses to use APS-C mode. I'll use APS-C mode with FF lenses on an A7s. For more DoF just use APS-C mode and a little bit wider lens, thus you'll get more in focus for any given f-stop.

RRRoger

The Sony E-mount 24-70 at f4 seems to have enough DOF for my work, but I will try APS-C mode someday. Besides, I have a GH4 for that.

What I like about the A7s is the lower light performance and a sharper image above ISO 1200.

balazer

Using APS-C mode to increase the depth of the focus field is equivalent to using an aperture setting one stop smaller. Either way you increase the noise.

But APS-C mode does have other advantages on the a7S: less jello and a sharp picture without moire in 1080/60p mode.

@RRRoger, you're not giving us enough information to guess why you got bad results filming the first time. There's no reason you should have moire just based on the aperture setting, and there's no reason you shouldn't get good results using in-camera recording.

RRRoger · vlcsnap-2015-03-23-13h29m10s91.png

Balazer, I do not even want to remember those settings. But low light, small aperture opening, and fast shutter speed are the main reasons for such poor images although I did expect better results from the A7s.

RRRoger · vlcsnap-2015-03-23-13h32m04s34c.png

As you can see, the second try was much better/more usable.

mrbill

Curious as to why you felt you wanted to return the camera after the first shoot?

IronFilm

@mrbill , based on the first image it is clear why... he doesn't know how to operate it!

RRRoger

IronFilm, You are correct but unfair. The first attempt was out of the box with nearly default settings! (maybe not default settings but the ones the camera came with) Only changes were a perceived necessary higher f-stop for more DOF and higher shutter speed to stop action.

As for why I wanted to return the A7s, the results were unacceptable. Even the second try was not as good as when using my GH4 the first time (out of the box, but after owning a GH3).

GeoffreyKenner

Were you in S-Log with a high ISO?

IronFilm

That is your issue, selecting higher f-stops! And even worse, high shutter speeds too!

Unless... your purpose is perhaps not to film this?? Are you instead intending to pull 4K stills to have images? Then why not just do a time lapse. Much better alternative.

RRRoger

I only post the Frame Grabs to illustrate my initial problem. If I were going to use this camera for stills, it would not be in Video mode. I would only take frame grabs from 4k if this camera was set up to run unattended.

I recorded the Church Service Sunday, both internally and externally 1080P30 at the same time. I found out is that it takes more work to process externally recorded footage, Also, the original DNxHD 36 footage is not as good as the XAVC internal recording.

DNxHD 36 (actually 45) = 1888x1062 at 48.3Mbps does not look as good as XAVC = 1920x1080 at 51.7Mbps to my eyes when played back on a High Res computer monitor. ProRes Lt = 1888x1062 at 92.2 Mbps looks a little better but takes a lot of storage space and the most processing time.

The problem with internal footage is the 29 minute limit and half the battery life compared to recording externally only. I had a two battery grip on and the A7s went thru 1 1/4 batteries in one hour while recording internally. When recording externally only, the single battery last almost 1 1/2 hours.

mrbill

Couple of things here that you need to read up on. Firstly, you cannot record at 1888x1062 - it's a format that doesn't exist. Secondly dnxhd 36 is a Lo-res flavour of the avid codec that is used for picture editing - why you would use it for shooting is absolutely beyond me. And surely a little research would have told you about the A7s poor battery showing, and clip length when working with dslrs. What you want is an HD camcorder, no? And for the last time - HD is 1920x1080. You need to get the basic science correct, otherwise you're going to attract criticism, especially when all you're doing is moaning about your kit not working properly.

RRRoger

If 1888x1062 does not exist, why does my Ninja II produce it? click on the image to read the MediaInfo.

RRRoger

I have more than acceptable results with my Nikon's and GH4 with very little learning curve. I am now getting acceptable results with the A7s too but after a much longer learning curve. Yes, after using the Panasonic HC-X1000, I do want a (4k) camcorder. The problem with that one is low light performance. My choice of venue is darker than it likes. Perhaps the rumored AF-100 successor will fill the bill. It may be announce in less than two weeks.

RRRoger

I went to NAB a few weeks ago and really did not like the new Panasonic AG-DVX200 4K Handheld Camcorder, it is not an upgraded AF-100. However, across the isle in the JVC booth was the camera I wanted them to produce, the 4k JVC S35 Sensor GY-LS300 with MFT mount. High price/lack of funds and poor battery life have kept me from getting one.

And, I spent what money I had on an Odyssey 7Q+. With included two proprietary SSD (much cheaper SamSung are now compatible) the price compares favorably with the Shogun, but I got a better built unit and more functionality for my use. They also displayed the new Video Devices PIX-E7 which I liked better than either but could not wait till December 2015 to get one.

I have decided that a 4k recorder is a necessity for the A7s. Not only to get more than 29 minutes of unattended Video, but also much better Quality from 4k DownRes to 1080P than internal or the recordings from my Ninja II. It also doubles the A7s battery life if you do not record internally. Another feature I like on the 7Q+ is the 2x Zoom with touch & drag focus point. This is really handy when you don't want the subject in the center of the picture.

I have also progressed from using Auto ISO and AF with the FE 24-70 to my Nikkors in manual mode. This has eliminated all the hunting and constant ISO changing and I have found that f-stop adjustments are all I need to get enough DOF without resorting to APS-C mode.

nomad

I agree, and it's interesting that Sony did something right there in the A7S: The start/stop control works well via HDMI (at least with my Shogun) and the camera doesn't stop until the juice runs out.

Even if nobody has yet asked me for a production in 4K, the downscaled image looks so much better and I can re-frame if needed. Sometimes we use the A7S in 4K fixed on sticks for live events together with other cameras running around and we always have a safe picture to cut back into with variable framing. Even some zoom or pan if needed – just like we did in the old days with HD for SD projects.

RRRoger

Update: I am now using the new Sony 28-135 Cine lens. The AF works better than the 24-70 and yesterday when it did not in tricky poor light (Pastor next to Projector Screen) all I had to do was pull the focus ring toward me and turn it a little bit. The 2X magnifier of the 7Q+ really helps as does the ability to drag him from the corner to center of the touch screen Monitor.

I also came up with some battery solutions. Small Rig battery plate for Sony F970 + dummy battery to power the A7s three hours. Poweradd 32,000 mAh battery for 7Q+ or both longer.

flablo

I've been told about overheating problems with the A7s when used for long recording times . And, a couple of days ago, after some 20 mins recording (first time I did such a long shot), I had a file writing error with resulting corrupted clip. Take all of this with a grain of salt, but be careful

RRRoger

Because I am not recording internally at the same time my A7s is relatively cool after 3 hours. Only shut down I ever had was due to dead battery. Perhaps using a dummy battery connected to an external one also helps.

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