Tagged with f3 - Personal View Talks

Sony F3 topic, F3 now comes with free S-LOG

Vitaliy_Kiselev — Thu, 01 Mar 2012 12:49:00 +0000

PMWF3, F3, Models PMW-F3K, PMW-F3L are discontinued (as models only), F3 re-introduced as PMW-F3K/RGB, PMWF3L/RGB with SLog standard

PMWF3K/RGB, PMWF3L/RGB will have all features of CBK-RGB01 as standard without increase in price. SLog 422, RGB444, 3G, LUT's, etc

Via: https://twitter.com/#!/CineAltaNews

Sony F3 or BMCC (ended up with a Sony F35)

mlysbakken — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 16:44:48 +0000

I have been offered a used Sony F3 for only slightly more than what the Blackmagic Cinema Camera costs. I have long been intent on buying the Blackmagic, but now I'm unsure. I haven't tried any of these cameras personally, so any advice would be greatly appreciated! Which one produces the most attractive image to you? Does one handle motion better than the other? How about low-light and general usability? I'm also uncertain about the advantages of 12 bit RAW over 10 bit S-LOG, as well as 2.7k over 1080p. Will those aspects make a world of difference, and is it worth the hassle?

I guess it's a luxury problem. I've seen amazing stuff from both cameras!

Sony PMW-F3 price drop

IronFilm — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:48:17 +0000

The current price for a new F3 is only US$3,995 now, a huge reduction from its original price:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/848144-REG/Sony_PMW_F3L_RGB_PMW_F3L_Super_35mm_Full_HD.html

I can tell it dropped from US$4,995 sometime in the last 48hrs based on Google's cache:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:f3DRVKbhbYQJ:www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/848144-REG/Sony_PMW_F3L_RGB_PMW_F3L_Super_35mm_Full_HD.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=nz

I was hoping Archive.org could give me insight into the price history over the past year. But sadly the most recent copy it shares at the moment is from October 2014 when it was $14,995:

https://web.archive.org/web/20141006031730/http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/848144-REG/Sony_PMW_F3L_RGB_PMW_F3L_Super_35mm_Full_HD.html

Adorama sadly doesn't sell it currently, just a kit for $13,800:

http://www.adorama.com/SOPMWF3G444.html

But it does have three in used condition (V condition $2,100, E- condition $2,400, E condition $2,575):

http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?op=recommend&sku=US_VDCSOPMWF3

And on eBay I can see sold listings for US$2K. I believe if people look around at their local private sales they'll find it even cheaper, I picked up one myself three weeks ago for US$1.2K via that.

Incredible price drop from 2011 when the Sony PMW-F3 first came out and it was nearly $20,000! ($16K for the body plus initially US$3,800 for the firmware upgrade)

It has had a far faster price drop than similar cameras of that era (give or take a year) which were priced similar (or even cheaper than the F3 was), such as: Canon C300, RED Scarlet, RED One, Sony FS700, BMCC. They've all seen big price drops, falling half in price, or even more. But none have seen the price fall to a tenth of the original cost! (or even less!)

I wonder why. I've got a few theories, it is was a rather popular enough camera in its niche (TV / documentaries / etc). Thus lots of F3 cameras were sold, which is causing mismatch in supply vs demand. As there is low demand because it never caught on amongst amateur/indie filmmakers (because they too quickly got distracted by the next shiny item, such as RED or BMD), who'd be the people who could soak up the supply of F3 cameras on the second hand market. As professional TV crews wouldn't be buying up F3 cameras in large numbers, they'd instead be moving on to an F5/F55.

So why are there not more indies picking up these cheap F3 bodies? I'd say there are a few reasons: its bulk, it is "only 1080", no raw, PL mount (too pricey for many indies), and SxS cards are pricey. (last two reasons are non issues, as under that PL mount you've got the FZ mount, and there are dirt cheap adapters for SxS to use standard SD cards. But many people won't realise this initially, and just be put off from getting an F3)

Makes you wonder what camera now which are priced way outside our reach will then be very affordable by 2019?

Alexa Mini? Doubt it, it will still hold onto its popularity and prestige for a long time.

Sony F5? Well... is the one directly after the F3, kinda makes it the obvious candidate to keep an eye on. The F5 after all is already feeling pricing pressure from Sony's own cheaper FS7, URSA Mini and other cameras will keep up the pressure.

KineFinity KineMAX 6K? Doubt it will sell enough to create a future large supply vs demand in balance.

Sony FS7? Perhaps this is the one to watch for 2019 deals, but it is already starting from a very affordable point. So it surely will fall to a similar price point by 2019 I guess, but it certainly won't fall to being a tenth of its original price.

AJA Cion? Eh, I suppose it might... but I doubt I'd pick it over my own F3!

Other candidates? Thoughts?

SF short: I wish my life

conscius — Mon, 01 Dec 2014 05:38:47 +0000

Hi guys, a few months ago I posted the trailer of my shortmovie.

Wel, here is the link tot the complete shortmovie:

pasw: sara

Please tell me what you think.

Tech specs: Filmed with sony F3(with slog update). Compact prime lenses (18mm, 50mm and 85mm). I used a mini ki pro and recorded in proress 422 hq. Some shots are filmed with the panasonic GH3 (lumix 12-35mm lens)

Edited in FCPX, visuals with AE and cinema3D

Trailer for my SF-short "I wish my life"

conscius — Sat, 30 Aug 2014 15:14:10 +0000

Hello guys,

I'm making a trailer for my shortfilm. I don't think it's very easy because, the short is only 15 minutes.. and i want to make a trailer with not to much spoilers (yeah duh!! i know :P but it's difficult because it is already a short movie)

You guys probably didn't see my short film, so you are neutral public. Are you guy's (and girls) interested in seeing this short after seeing the trailer? And are there any tips, suggestions to make the trailer better?

RJ Follow Focus F3, with hard stops

mk47 — Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:16:46 +0000

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Follow-Focus-Finder-F3-15mm-Rod-Support-for-DSLR-Camera-with-Gear-Belt-Canon-60D-/160705251583?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256ac788ff

UK seller: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Follow-Focus-Finder-F3-15mm-Rod-Support-for-DSLR-Camera-Canon-60D-600D-5D2-7D-/261032103551?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cc6b9ce7f

Got this today. As you can see its on the cheap (i took it from the UK seller to avoid customs/taxes for the total of 150 eur). I havent really tried any other follow focus systems, but the build quality for this one seems really solid.

GH2 versus Arri Alexa and F3 (real world testing)

JDN — Mon, 26 Sep 2011 10:46:47 +0000

Recently directed a two week block of a nature doc where the gh2 was side by side with an F3 and then an Alexa. Overall, everyone was impressed with how well the gh2 stood up -- so much so I take back what I said about the F3 on another forum. I now believe the hacked gh2 may look better than any camera under $20K, even if those cameras are fitted with external recorders.

In no particular order, here’s some observations for those who are interested:

SPECS:
Sony F3 with RED 17-50mm zoom outputting nanoflash at psf 140mbps I frame
Arrix Alexa with a variety of canon bayonet mount lenses shooting to prores HQ 422
GH2 with kae 3GOP hack with 14, 25 mm (panasonic) and 50mm (FD) primes
All shooting was done at 23.98 with black frost 1/8th and schiender tru polas

GH2 versus F3

OUTDOOR PERFORMANCE
We started off shooting the F3 at 100 mbps long GOP and almost barfed when we reviewed the results in the hotel room that night -- the high bit rate did not take away from the very “video” look, and the sensor had no ability whatsoever to handle blowouts -- the sun had disgusting fringy bands around it (although to be fair, this could have been the lens). Switching to I frame improved the “film” though the gh2 still somehow had better cadence -- our DoP, who is much more experienced than me, commented that he always thought panasonic’s cadence at 24 frames was better than other manufacturers and some of that knowledge could have gone into the gh2.

Much like how the gh2 trumps the canon SLRS in terms of aliasing and moire, it maintained a slight edge over the f3 with nano in these categories as well -- we were shooting a lot in forested areas at the aliased fringing on foliage was less noticeable with the gh2 than with the f3.
Colour Rendition. Although we did not have much time to play with custom colour profiles on the f3, the general impression was that the f3 handled reds better and the gh2 handled greens better. Overall, the F3’s look was much more like the richness you’d get off a 5D, while the gh2 (at -2,-2,0,-2) had a slightly drained film look while still rending beautiful green tones. Obviously, for nature documentary, greens are more important than reds, so once again the Gh2 was the winner.

INDOOR PERFORMANCE
We were unable to test the gh2 and f3 with only available light, but with a controlled lighting setup, the two stacked up very well. We used the f3 to cover wides and mediums and the gh2 with 50 mm fd to cover the headshot. Overall, the cameras were comparable -- they both handled blacks very well, exhibited minimal noise (in both cases, when there was noise, it was quite pleasing) and experienced no aliasing around the edge of the interview subject, even with a back and top light.

The gh2 did show a noticeable red shift in low light -- I had to click the +G up about four spots on the colour balance and go a few 100 K cooler than the F3; even then we will be doing some colour correct to bring down the red a bit.
Overall, for a sit down interview, I’d say the F3 was the winner with more accurate colour rendition, more detail and perhaps a half stop more of latitude. That said, one is a $1200 setup, the other (counting the nanoflash & lens) is nearly a $30,000 setup.

BUILD QUALITY
The placement of the F3’s viewfinder was even more inconvenient than an slrs and as such was rarely used -- forcing us to rely on the f3’s viewfinder, which is actually worse (and less accurate) than the GH2s. As the F3 lacks false colour of a red or an alexa, you’re basically shooting with a histogram and zebras, just like a gh2, so neither has the upper hand.

We were not impressed with the build quality of the f3 -- it felt very plasticky, even more so than the gh2, and we were constantly worried we would break the thing. I could not, in good confidence, rely on it as a A-cam in a situation where I was far away from a gear house; one mistake and I think you’d shut down production. Same goes for the gh2 -- I’m sure its lack of weather sealing will one day cause me grief; thankfully, its low price tag will allow me to keep backups on hand.

SIZE AND PRICE
- With incredible progress of the hack, we often overlook how important the GH2’s form factor is, but I really saw it on this shoot:
One of our DPs, who has done a lot of work in warzones, saw the gh2s and its results and immediately commented, “these are going to be the Leica’s of video.” And I realize I’ve started to use it that way: like the stereotypical war photographic with three or four leica’s and primes around his neck, I just carry around two gh2s (and may get a third) — usually keep the 14mm on one (sometimes mounted on a glidecam hd), and the second one armed with either the 50mm f1.4 leica or a 100 mm f1.4 fd -- you get the visual characteristics of primes without having to stop to change them, and also quickly become a much better shooter.

In a doc setting, it is incredible how much you can get done when you are not tied to a heavy camera and sticks (nor crippled by the 12 minute run time of canon slrs). It was too rainy/windy/sandy at one location to risk the F3 and nano so we just pulled out the gh2s and ended up getting way more coverage than we would have ever got with the f3 (an interesting point on most of the new cameras, F3 included, is that they are not really designed to be shoulder held, so you end up killing 5 minutes to build a rig whenever you go from sticks to hand held).

WINNER: GH2

GH2 versus Arri Alexa
The above comments about the maneuverability of the GH2 apply even moreso comparison to the Alexa -- with lens, it weighs 30 - 35 pounds and can only be operated shoulder mounted with the assistance of a custom built easy rig.

Indoor Performace
The Alexa is absolutely incredible when shooting indoors with natural light only. It is mind-blowingly good -- in many situations we were able to shoot with a single 1x1 light panel as fill/key. The tonality of the colours is breathtaking (especially at 10 bit) but the real secret is the 14 stops of latitude -- whereas normally you’d have to light to keep your subject from disapearing into your background, and your background bright enough to not drop into shadow, with the Arri there is no need to do this. We shot some quick and dirty recon in an old train car and I felt like I was looking at a major motion picture (in the past, you had to spend hours rigging lights so the setting would look like it was naturally lit -- with the arri, you just use natural light).

In situations that are lit, the contrast between the arri and gh2 falls off a little -- we did a dinner where everyone had their own dedo as a key (to simulate light coming off a practical (oil lamp) on the table), with backlight coming from a fire and various practical and fill from a light panel. In this environment, the gh2’s red shift actually sold the oil lamp light very convincingly, and it’s lack of latitude was not a detriment as we were going for a dramatic look (this is not to say that it was better than the arri, however, as the arri files could also be crunched later to achieve a similar effect -- it was just that the lack of latitude as compared to the arri was not detrimental in this situation). I should say, however, there is something about the gh2 cadence that is still impressive -- for part of the shoot, we had the gh2 on a konova slider and the alexa on a microdolly (the standard dolly from an out of focus silhouette to reveal a table full of diners) and I gotta say, in some cases I preferred the cadence of the gh2 but overall the quality, lattitude and 10 bit colour of the alexa was a sight to behold.

OUTDOOR PERFORMACE
In run and gun situations outdoors, the arri showed some of its limits -- you really needed a good dp (which thankfully we had) who could put the sticks in the right place the first time because it just wasn’t the easiest camera to move around. Even moreso than other large cameras I’ve shot with (like the f800, which is about half the weight) the weight of the arri did limit some options and increase setup time. But, given the spectacular colours, it was worth it.

OTHER ISSUES
- The weight, and the fact that it chews through a 32 gig SxS card in 20 minutes, means you’re not running this thing for long without an assistant. We were constantly dumping cards, backing them up and reformating them (and that was with 7 cards). But if you can afford a $80,000 camera body, you can probably afford an assistant.

WINNER: ARRI ALEXA (what’d you expect?). I would say, however, the form factor of the alexa means that any doc shoot will require the highest quality, most maneuverable B camera to go with it, or you’re going to miss out on certainly angles and opportunities -- so far, the gh2 and Alexa seem a pretty good match in that respect, though we won’t really find out until we get them in the edit together).

ONE FINAL NOTE:
My biggest realization from these two weeks of side-by side comparisons (and a week earlier with the f800 as a cam) is that there really is “a gh2 look” -- something about the cadence, rendering of greens, slightly drained colour palate, and ability to handle dramatic lighting (from blacks to blowouts) makes it unique. As people once spoke of a Leica look, I think the more we play with the hacked gh2, the more we’ll realize it has something all its own. I can’t yet put my finger on what that is yet, but I can say that, much like film, there is something about its footage, which when shot right, gives you a real-but-unreal feeling; it is real because it has incredible detail and lack of video give aways (aliasing, moire, fringing/banding etc), yet is is unreal because the cadence contributes to suspension of disbelief, while its love of being at least one stop underexposed (and usually two) naturally leads to more dramatic tonality of colours and shadows than you’d experience with your own eyes).

Large chip camcorder comparison: AF100 vs F3 vs FS100

Vitaliy_Kiselev — Thu, 05 May 2011 05:53:12 +0000

Made by Philip Bloom

Link to his blog post - http://philipbloom.net/2011/05/05/bloomshootout/

Video itself

TrusMT T2 Follow Focus Review

Hunter_H_Richards — Fri, 20 May 2011 13:36:38 +0000

Its been 4 weeks now since I got this thing but ill start from the beginning to make it more interesting:

I was looking for used follow focuses on ebay for dslr use- to my surprise I saw an Arri Mff-1 look-a-like followfocus for sale brand new $399 by "trusmt". $399 sounded way too cheap but after looking at pictures from their website, it felt low enough risk give it a try, keeping a realistic view that if it was only 1/4 as good as the arri I would be happy with it for dslr use (going on $399 vs $1600 for the arri).

It showed up 2 days later in a pretty little box with precision cut foam for holding the goods (wish I still had this to take a photo of the box but I threw it out when we moved a few weeks ago, I was impressed though)

Contents were:

1x Trusmt t2 follow focus http://trusmt.com/proview.asp?id=44

4x Gear rings (4 different sizes)

1x bag of tools and extra screws

1x trusmt catalogue

First reactions:

Visual build test:
I picked it up and looked around the unit for signs of poor manufacturing, I was amazed how well it was made, very solid and couldnt see with my eye anything showing poor work. Colors and anodizing looked nice too.

Gear rings looked good- reminded me of red rock micro (i dont really care much for these but they work and were included "free")

Follow focus feel test:
To make it fair, I have used every mechanical Arri follow focus from ff1 to ff4, including the mff1, the lwff, ect- most chrosziels, as well as most "affordable" ones like redrock/cavision/cinevate- I got spoiled on the arri's and chrosziels for sure.

I spun the trusmt followfocus wheel to see how the gear box felt, It was very well dampened and actually felt good (possibly too well of dampening, but ill get to this later)

"Wow, I cant believe this was $399" I thought

Two handed "play" test:
(no not what your thinking pervert)

I grabbed the handwheel with one hand and with my other hand, i held the drive gear to see how much play there was. it seemed like too much play- then I realzied I needed to tighten the drive gear screw and after that it was only maybe 2mm of play? Didnt take an accurate reading but what ever it was it was very close to the more budget friend followfocuses like redrock for example and much better than the origional redrock follow focus if you ever tried that one. Not to bad for such a cheap follow focus!

Mounting it on the camera:

I placed a gear on my lens and put the followfocus on the rails. It was pretty tight putting it on- maybe the rod spacing distance on the trusmt was slightly too narrow- I tried it on another rail system and it did the same- tiny bit of work to clamp it on to the rails (I was using chrosziel matte aluminum rods, maybe it works better with steel)

It felt pretty good, but I noticed it took a lot of effort to drive the lens with the follow focus- this was probably because the gear box had too much dampaning grease in it as I was using it on a very smooth focusing lens. But it wasnt terrible- Would actually feel perfect on an AF lens as they seem to have near zero dampening or feel to them in the focus ring.

Hard Stops:

This just got in the way for me so I removed the blue disk along with them using the included tools, they just kinda flopped around or if I locked them, wouldnt allow full lens rotation- you may like them on

Alternate opinion:
My friend who mostly produces but shoots some too came and checked out the rig- and after feeling the follow focus said he thought it felt amazing "So much better than my (XXXXXXX more expensive) follow focus I have" (im not going to name names)

4 Weeks later, pros and cons:

Pros:

Looks nice

Really great build for the price, I dont think you can get anything better here at this level

Versatile mounting from the articulating arm

Good "feel" to value ratio (no arri or chrosziel, but for follow focuses under $900- this thing competes well at its price point)

Comes with extra tools/parts

beveled magnetic marking disk

Drive gear can be moved front to back with one screw

Did I mention this is a nice working follow focus for $399!?!

Cons:

Gear Box is too well dampened (not good for cine lenses, but again I dont think its aimed here- its aimed at people using AF lenses)

Hardstops are OK but better to take them off unless you have an extremely short throw AF lens (just remove 2 screws on the handwheel, then 4 screws to remove the blue disk- put the hand wheel back on)

Some play (About 2 mm isnt bad, but I would prefer zero play- but then again who wouldnt!)

A bit heavy

Some torque in the Arm part if you have it up too high, could be beefed up here a bit

Conclusion:

Let me get real- This thing is no Arri MFF-1, its 1/4 of the price- what did you expect? With that said, I do think its more than 1/2 as good the the Arri, which is saying something. Is it going to be my follow focus on my f3? On a red? maybe not, I probably will have to go to Arri for that.

Will trusmt provide good customer support? I dont know

Is every unit made well? I cant tell you

But for $399, I feel I have a great value of a follow focus unit- perfect for any dslr and ideal for any dslr with AF lenses: I.e. The gh2.

If you have a dslr and your looking for something nice looking, well built, that will actually work as a follow focus and you only have $399 and you appreciate taking a bit of risk- I can honestly say this is the best cheapest follow focus ive tried and would recommend it. Hopefully Trusmt will continue to improve on the design and make it even better in the future.

(Disclaimer: I dont know trusmt people so I cant vouch for them, nor have I received any compensation- Im just basing this review and recomendation off of this one follow focus model I bought from them on ebay, do your own dilagence and get other opinions too!)

Some camera porn attached (again, not ideal for an f3, just showing you!):

Higher Bitrates for Sony F3 and FS-100

bannedindv — Sat, 11 Jun 2011 14:20:09 +0000

Do you think it is possible to increase the capabilities of these new cameras with firmware modifications?

Bad 3rd party battery can cause weird behaviour or shutting off.

Toronto — Mon, 30 May 2011 07:04:45 +0000

I have been testing out the new 'unhackable' hack for my 2011 GH1 and I noticed something very wierd. The camera kept shutting off. Sometimes I would turn it off and on and still nothing, it would not restart either sometimes. I then took the camera off the tripod and turned it off and on and it worked again. I said to myself "this is wierd", so I put it back on the tripod and screwed in the tripod grip regular tight again, and it didn't turn on. I then thought "it must be the pressure between the tripod and the camera", so I loosened the grip knob until the camera could move a bit and immediately it turned on again. I then tightened the grip a tiny bit again, and it immediately shut off and would not turn on. So I figured out this problem was directly related to the camera being normally gripped on the tripod.

This appears to be related to some kind of pressure sensitivity of the battery itself as it is a 3rd party battery, and I was having it shut off randomly off the tripod a couple times too, but I did notice this specific action always produced it shutting off the camera so it may help out those who can't figure out why this is happening, perhaps thinking it is a hacked camera setting, when it may just be how tight your camera is on the tripod. (In other words I could not even have it at normal tightness with the 3rd party battery, which kind of defeats the purpose of a tripod if I wanted to pan it wouldn't pan correctly since the thread was not tight enough into the camera to keep the camera on snug.

Update: I just tried the panasonic battery and could not replicate this problem (I could have the camera as tight as I wanted with the panasonic battery). So it appears only the 3rd party battery I got off ebay (dmw-blb13) has this pressure sensitivity issue. So if you get these 3rd party batteries, you may end up having to use them handheld most of the time so there is no pressure on the battery plate area of the camera.

I am not sure if this problem happend before I installed the 'unhackable' hack or not. I did notice that there was a setting related to 3rd party batteries in the new ptool (can't remember if I checked or unchecked it when making the hacked bin though), but the 3rd party battery was working normally for my 'unhackable' gh1 before I even tried to install ptool for the first time yesterday (I made a one hour recording on it before installing the new ptool), so maybe a setting of some kind could have some relation to this, but I can't know that for sure yet. I do know that only the 3rd party battery is affected either way though, as even after the new hack, my panasonic battery cannot reproduce this error.