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Zacuto 'Revenge of Great Camera Shootout,' featuring GH2
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  • GH2UWGH2UW

    "If anyone who calls themselves a cinematographer considers this absurd exercise in stupidity a test they truly don't have a clue." Francis Kenny @ RED.User

    http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?79526-Just-watched-first-part-of-zacuto-shootout/page6

    Well...it's official now! We are all fucking clue-less...

  • driftwooddriftwood

    http://www.zacuto.com/zvideo/RGCSO-TechnicalCameraDocumentation-V1.pdf

  • shianshian

    Thanks, Nick @driftwood

    I like that they released a pdf of how the lighting was altered for each. Kinda shocked that the F65 was the only cam that didn't change anything from the base setup. Would have thought the Alexa could handle the DR easily from the meter readings given in the PDF. Other than the EU in that one corner which is off the scale on the shadow side, and would be hard to capture any detail there and still retain the highlights, it's really only a 9 stop DR scene. Too broad for the DSLR cams, hence the adjusted lighting, but well within the claimed 13.5 of the bigger cams, and the claimed 12 of the C300.

    On the GH2, if they shot smooth, and the median exposure is the foreground girl's face at 5.6 1/2, then everything over 11 would be really hazy, and everything at 16 and above would be pure white. On the shadow side everything under 2 would start to get murky, but you'd still have a little detail on the 1.4's before pure black. The EU on that desk/cube, would be pure black. This all depends on if they adjust the 2/3s of a stop to get her skin to 50%. if not, they'd have another 2/3 highlight room, but lose it again on the shadow side.

    I like how they compensated the room to bring up the exposure inside, pulling the scrims and ND, adding the joker, the 650, and the two 4x4s. I'm really looking forward to seeing this.

  • driftwooddriftwood

    Hi @shian, yeah this particular shootout has me intrigued -not just for us GH2 users but how they have conducted it. To my eyes they are at least trying to make a fair middle ground playing field, however, this may not really show off the ability of the big boys. Hence the all round grief this is generating...

  • shianshian

    I'll also be interested to see if they had scopes running live on the footage, rather than using each camera's in-cam meter.

  • PhilldaagonyPhilldaagony

    @driftwood @shian Very interesting indeed. Last week at the Chicago screening they mentioned they would be releasing this information as a PDF within a few days. During the screening they flashed it up on screen for a few seconds at the end, and it was near impossible to discern what each crew did during relight etc.

    It's worth noting that while the f65 was the only camera to not relight anything, the purpose of the relight was to get the best possible image out of the camera based on the DP/cinematographer's preference, meaning they could have just relit the scene because they didn't like Zacuto's master 1:1 setup. Also, Sony was the only company that didn't let Zacuto's colorist grade the footage for either the empirical or creative round. They used an offsite facility and colorist of their choosing, which kind of sucks.

    Also, I believe they mentioned during the screening that every Cinematographer exposed for the exterior, and attempted to relight the interior to match/bring up the interior in post as well. When you get a chance to see the non-grade vs graded footage of the GH2 you'll see a massive difference, as is expected.

    Still, looking at the relight time and the number of adjustment layers, I have to ask, what the hell was the c300 team doing (relight time of 1hr 24" and 27 post production layers), unless that camera was just that difficult to use in this particular setup.

  • shianshian

    @Philldaagony yeah, Sony has always been that way with their flagship products.

    I'm shooting with a C300 tomorrow so we'll see what's up.

  • shianshian

    I can't find a dedicated C300 thread, so my experience today shooting with one, was --- a quick learning curve, granted I had a Canon rep there to help out finding things, and when I questioned my exposure out loud, she said, "...just use the waveform monitor." I think I just stood there and blinked a few times, dumbly, at her....."This thing has a waveform monitor built in?" "Yeah, just push the little 'wfm' button on the side." I almost became a canon fan...but as good as this cam is, it's not worth the asking price.... It really does produce some nice looking footage, that grades really well. But for $16,000 it oughtta. It also OUGHT to play audio during playback, which it doesn't. The controls take some getting used to, but for the most part it's a very smart design, nice and light, not too happy with the choice of lenses. (Canon supplied the lenses, all EFs) Really needs a PL mount option that is not a factory hard mount, but interchangeable. The Waveform monitor is really awesome!! Almost as awesome as False Color, easy to read, and easy to toggle on and off. Same with peaking and zebras, nice on/off toggles on the side of the cam.

    Doesn't handle highlights as well as the advertised 12 stops would lead one to believe, BUT it is better in that dept than the 5D, 7D... and, I have to admit, the GH2.

  • thepalaliasthepalalias

    @Shian When I was at the C500 event I remember needing to ask for help to change the ISO, so don't feel bad. :) I'm told the two cameras control almost exactly the same, so I will add my comments about the C500 here. Many of the controls were very intuitive and I did like having direct access to so many parameters without having to dive into a menu. The tools you mentioned were very helpful, and as far as the RGB waveform display it really made a difference for me. Similar functionality (including the "exposure" tool) is of course offered on the RED Scarlet and Epic, though with an RGB histogram as opposed to a waveform display.

    The C500, shooting 4K to an external recorder, performed every bit as well in the highlights as the 12-stops would lead me to believe, so it is possible the encoding format is the limiting factor on the C300.

    As far as the mount, their senior rep at the event answered that as one of my questions during the public Q & A. The official position, whether anyone else agrees with it or not, is that the using an interchangeable mount would result in some reduction in image quality, no matter how minute, and that the company will not make that compromise on the camera itself. Now, they are open to offering their cinema lenses with a PL mount in the future (though I was somewhat unclear as to whether that would come in the form of an interchangeable mount or would just be a different product).

  • driftwooddriftwood

    The link is up for Part one - learn about the guys behind the GH2 setup at around 17 minutes in.

    http://www.zacuto.com/shootout-revenge-2012/revenge-great-camera-shootout-part-one

  • gibgib

    I reckon B, H, A look best, iPhone must be D

    An excellent article and a nice wee test, looking forward to the follow up

  • driftwooddriftwood

    I chose F, B, A whilst there... I know the answers as to what camera is which... should I tell which camera is which? ;-)

  • johnnymossvillejohnnymossville

    F, B, C, H for me. It was pretty difficult choosing among them, but in my opinion F was pretty much better than the rest.

  • thepalaliasthepalalias

    16:47 Starts the GH2 section of the Shootout (the process they used) and it ends at 18:40.

    Comparison footage starts shortly after 19:00. It ends at 23:22. There are 9 test clips.

    Interviews end at 27:44. The rest is credits.

    @driftwood No, message the people that ask but do not post publicly yet. The rest of us should have to take bigger risks than we would knowing the answers. :)

  • driftwooddriftwood

    I wouldnt reveal anyway DW. What's been really good about this is really its a cinematographers shootout. And it shows if you get lighting, grading right, any camera can look great. Even the lowly iphone performs admirably.

  • JizzyjonesJizzyjones

    F-B-A-I-H were my top5. D is defiantly iphone, G is 7D. H is GH2?

  • JPB1138JPB1138
    1. F
    2. H
    3. A

    F head and shoulders better than rest for me. Then H and A had a similar feel. Interested to see peoples reactions when answers released.

  • thepalaliasthepalalias

    Starting my observations and guesses. This round focuses entirely on the last part of the shot, with the two actors sitting down in the foreground.

    Which one is the iPhone? D. If D is not the iPhone, somebody made a big mistake creatively with it because there is no reason for the DOF to have to be that deep on any of the other cameras.

    Why are the highlights so yellow on the exterior for camera C? Seems an odd creative choice to keep them that way, whether or not the camera rendered them that way to start with..

    I like the choice of blue on the shirt in the foreground in E and H. It is an interesting variation from that used in the others.

  • BressonftwBressonftw

    So basically what the GH2 guys did was light the dark and shadow spots a bit more, and the girl with the black dress, to compensate for the DR. Any other hints/ good tips they gave to make the camera look best that I missed?

  • JPB1138JPB1138

    Do you think H the GH2? Thats my guess, could be way off... but thats what it felt like for me.. F just has so much range and clarity, I want one... Only thing I didnt love about H was the blue highlights so much. Maybe do a little Highlight De-Sat in those areas.. Just a thought.

  • thepalaliasthepalalias

    @JPB1138 (EDIT: I originally typed this incorrectly but Driftwood caught it). H seems to have the widest field of view. If all the cameras actually used the same focal length, I would guess it had the largest sensor but I read that there was some variation.

    Both A and H appear to have stronger light in the top back right corner than the rest.

  • JPB1138JPB1138

    @thepalalias Yeah I agree about the light in the top corner, I think it just needed a little bit more balance to white. I didn't mind the blue highlights too much but next to the others it seemed slightly off. Maybe thats just comparative analysis, but that would be my only thought about negatives on those two clips, i still liked them favorably regardless.

    B doesn't look as good to my eyes as some are saying. maybe in the screening it looked better... Seems oversharpened, and in her dress at the sitting position towards the end it seems like some artifacting is going on in the blacks or something.

  • thepalaliasthepalalias

    @JPB1138 Before I analyzed more closely, my initial reaction was that D, E and G (as likely because of the approach as because of the camera) were my least favorite. Honestly, I am more interested in the test where they all have the same lighting setup. :)

    H had my least favorite highlight on the orange/red guy's shirt on the right. Too high contrast. :) If the GH2 is not H, it may also be I. I really have not taken a close enough look at these yet to make a guess.

  • PhilldaagonyPhilldaagony

    Gah, it's killing me knowing which camera is which and not chiming in on the discussion. Everyone's gonna be in for a little surprise once everything is revealed....

  • driftwooddriftwood

    It looked better on the bigger screen thats for sure. :-) Some of you are way off, some of you are very close! @thepalalias needs to study again! Though some of his answer is on it! :-)

    @ Philldaagony Shhhh don't tell.

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