Why AOC is 100x closer to Hitler than Trump

Vitaliy_Kiselev

Remove all personalities, just look at real deeds and major proposals.

What AOC and pinky left stand for?

Increase immigration to help their big capitalist friends as they need modern analogy of slaves, cheap dependent workers (under false pretense!)
Push green agenda by destroying coal, oil and gas plants and such way effectively destroying any major energy intensive manufacturing
Ignore any issues of energy quality, ignore lack of enough uninterruptible electricity for any manufacturing plans
Ignore huge issues for nature and people that resources needed for electric cars are making
Push reverse racism and sexism by extremely oppressing any white heterosexual males (as they happen to fall in free major oppressed groups)
Prize and stimulate inequality despite talking about opposite like any real opportunist
Stimulate big inflation for anything that is included in basic needs (food, education, transport and homes)
Provide stimulus as reward for right behavior, treating people like dogs (and most shitty stupid dogs, I must say)

What Trump stands for (who is also reactionary right, really bad, just less right!)?

Stop immigration to force capitalists to pay more for workforce or to make modernization and automate the process
Keep green guys under control to let economy function and manufacturing not be destroyed (yet he can do very little)
Same push for electric cars, but it is just class issue
He tries to play on feelings of new oppressed groups as roles changed, does not mean that he want to solve any issues
Also prizes inequality but being honest about it, more or less, as far as media requirements limit him
Tried to slightly reduce huge amount of stimulus despite it had been major cause of his electoral issues

What is BLM thingy?

It is new idea of capitalist to keep reaction and delay progress, but using new "modern" approach.

Under race and similar slogans they want to oppress more progressive part (for now, such is the life, not because any race is better) of society, tell them to shut up and turn on full time propaganda that they are oppressors and even their holidays does not matter.

And race here does not matter, as for now they only invented how to attack major part of more educated and more able while still looking like nice and progressive (financially it was middle class, having property and such) as they are important for pushing the progress wheel.

Most fun part is that major part of people who will suffer the most are most vivid supporters of this all.

Nino_Ilacqua

I totally agree. I would add that they are supported by mass media (CNN and alike) in a way that Joseph Goebbels in comparison was a beginner.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@Nino_Ilacqua

All you need is to use class approach to remove the fog they induce.

Mass media always follow and lick the owners balls.

Duncanario

I'm sorry but this is a very poor analysis, in my view.  It is not accurate to suggest that AOC or her ilk are in favour of more immigration. It would be fairer to describe their position as wanting immigrants to be treated as human beings rather than as scum, as they were under Trump.

 There are clear inconsistencies with the green movement of course but the scientific consensus is consistent that we are heading for serious environmental problems with global temperature increases. It isn’t acceptable to just keep pumping CO2 into the atmosphere. In Scotland over 90% of electricity consumption comes from renewable sources (mostly wind and Hydro). The lights haven’t gone out yet. The idea that global capital is constructing a conspiracy to hold back fossil fuels, common amongst right wing fanatics in the USA, is just nonsense. The fossil fuel industry has immense power. Sure capital sees an opportunity here, it always does. It doesn’t mean we can keep going on as we are. We should be developing new truly renewable technologies and opposing the fake ones like biomas.

 I’ve noticed consistent poor analysis on the issue of race from you on your board. I understand class is a primary issue for you (and I don’t have a problem with that) but racism IS a class issue and especially so in the USA. The idea that white working-class men are an especially oppressed group is reactionary nonsense. To imply that they are more oppressed than black working-class men just makes your argument look flaccid. How many dead would there have been if it were black working-class men storming the Capitol? Racism in the USA has always been used as a mechanism to hold the white working classes back, focusing their anger on minorities and so diverting them from their real enemy, their ruling class. It’s surprising for me that you don’t seem to see that. Using race to divide the working classes so to manipulate them more easily is Fascism 101. Trump’s ‘America First’ inauguration was a barely coded invitation to right wing extremists. AOC 100x closer to Fascism? Do me a favour.

 I don’t even completely agree with your ‘Pinky Left’ label. AOC and Sanders would barely be on the left of any plain Jane European Social Democratic party. They’re pretty much Keynesian in their outlook so pretty much Capitalists who want good healthcare and drinkable water.

 And so this Trump (further from Hitler in your eyes) has continued daily drone assassinations all over the world. Has kept troops in Iraq and Afganistan. Re-instigated punishing sanctions in Cuba. Attempted both a parliamentary and an armed coup in Venezuela, starved them and blocked their assets from feeding their people. Left 400,000 of his own people to die. Given massive tax cuts to US oligarchs, removed health care from working people, encouraged violent right wing extremists, called for violence against left wing demonstrators and journalists and set worker against worker. This guy is less of a Fascist than AOC?

 In the end I have to say that I’ve always been intrigued by what a contemporary Russian Marxist has to say. I would like to see reasoned enlightenment, and often I do, but in this instance, I think you’ve jumped the shark. Maybe you see a reforming politician as an obstacle, as if the working class won’t rise up and seize their Socialist future unless they are ground into the dirt. The thing is that many are already ground into the dirt but their American dream illusion and 100 years of total ideological warfare against any Socialist view point is very powerful. There is no way you could say that the conditions for a socialist revolution are anywhere near existing there. Maybe AOC is the best you can get at the moment. The country is so poorly educated, so inward looking and so backward in many ways. We may want them to rise up and break their chains but “those who do not move do not notice their chains”

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@Duncanario

Big thanks for nice detailed answer.

It is not accurate to suggest that AOC or her ilk are in favour of more immigration. It would be fairer to describe their position as wanting immigrants to be treated as human beings rather than as scum, as they were under Trump.

Small initial part. As far as I can check AOC and her group had been extremely against Trump blocking stream of immigrants, including very rich ones that go to IT sector (and they are treated superb compared to any other).

So, lets begin expanding my analysis. As it is based on class approach, lets position AOC in this field.

AOC is typical capitalist servant who is very similar to old trade unionists (such people are used to guide large groups of people in the wrong way, aka cycling in circles 40 years in desert). Hence you must view all her actions understanding who she is.

Scientific consensus is consistent that we are heading for serious environmental problems with global temperature increases.

I do not agree with term "scientific consensus", as science in class society is not some objective thing, it is just poor and slutty servant of ruling class. We saw it perfectly with coronavirus thing.

It isn’t acceptable to just keep pumping CO2 into the atmosphere.

Why? If you look at real science it shows that trees and lot of small organisms in ocean perfectly consume CO2.

In Scotland over 90% of electricity consumption comes from renewable sources (mostly wind and Hydro).

And in Norway situation is similar, but it does not mean that it all scales worldwide and it does not mean that you can make it consistent and suitable at every place.

The idea that global capital is constructing a conspiracy to hold back fossil fuels, common amongst right wing fanatics in the USA, is just nonsense. The fossil fuel industry has immense power. Sure capital sees an opportunity here, it always does. It doesn’t mean we can keep going on as we are.

he idea that global capital is constructing a conspiracy to hold back fossil fuels, common amongst right wing fanatics in the USA, is just nonsense. The fossil fuel industry has immense power. Sure capital sees an opportunity here, it always does. It doesn’t mean we can keep going on as we are. We should be developing new truly renewable technologies and opposing the fake ones like biomas.

Whole green stuff comes from wrong idea that we can save things as they are. No, we can't, except few special places. We'll see tremendous changes.

As for fossil fuels, US come nice evolution. As it imports energy now not in the form of raw fuels as previous, but in the form of ready to consume goods (from China and other places), and also in the from of "renewable energy equipment". Not only this, but it does not provide anything in return.

"Truly renewable" technologies right now are being paid by developing countries by debt (aka database zeroes not backed by any products) and produced using quite real CO2 rich coal based China manufacturing plans. So, it is not renewable, as whole thing can stop any second (just enough for few countries to call things as they are and all of it will turn into rotten mess.

I’ve noticed consistent poor analysis on the issue of race from you on your board. I understand class is a primary issue for you (and I don’t have a problem with that) but racism IS a class issue and especially so in the USA.

Actually it is quite good analysis, you just look at this with common bias, so do not see whole picture.

Racism is big problem in the class societies, but it exist during socialism also, just in other forms and it is sometimes hard to fight with it. As race (same look and same culture) is ancient form to quickly form group of people to gain something from less organized group or individuals.

The idea that white working-class men are an especially oppressed group is reactionary nonsense. To imply that they are more oppressed than black working-class men just makes your argument look flaccid.

You just fall into the trap that ruling class made. As it is absolutely clear that US need to provide to black real equal opportunities, and same is true for any other race in US. But ruling class and AOC do not want to do this. Never did.

Instead they promote nice ideas like "you need to have certain percentage of black people", even if they do not fir or are worse. It does not solve anything. And actually this is exactly reverse racism, as now you oppress people who are better and who are white.

I am talking to few leading IT giants developers and now it is really big disadvantage to be white heterosexual and healthy male. All of giants have unofficial quotas now, and each day you pay for this by having inferior software and services. Not because other races are worse, but because they get worse people for the job instead of providing proper environment for such people to rise to right level.

How many dead would there have been if it were black working-class men storming the Capitol? Racism in the USA has always been used as a mechanism to hold the white working classes back, focusing their anger on minorities and so diverting them from their real enemy, their ruling class. It’s surprising for me that you don’t seem to see that.

Looking at BLM reality, it could be much more dead and they had been among police and senators (just in US no one is brave enough to tell this). As most active groups who ransacked stores and such was not any workers or good society members. So they could be really radical here.

You are right, both sides are being used. Trump is using right wing guys, but he never focused their anger on minorities during public speeches.

Using race to divide the working classes so to manipulate them more easily is Fascism 101. Trump’s ‘America First’ inauguration was a barely coded invitation to right wing extremists. AOC 100x closer to Fascism? Do me a favour.

Yes, and AOC is MAIN divider, this is that I am telling you. Of course AOC is 100x closer. Do not use early 20th century approach. Real left failed mostly due to being unable to adapt to new enemy methods.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

I don’t even completely agree with your ‘Pinky Left’ label. AOC and Sanders would barely be on the left of any plain Jane European Social Democratic party. They’re pretty much Keynesian in their outlook so pretty much Capitalists who want good healthcare and drinkable water.

My term is used to describe fake left guys that are promoted by media as left and also calling themselves left. Same thing happened during early 20th century in many countries where social democrats talked much more radical than present US guys, but instantly served their capitalist masters as it had been necessary/

And so this Trump (further from Hitler in your eyes) has continued daily drone assassinations all over the world. Has kept troops in Iraq and Afganistan. Re-instigated punishing sanctions in Cuba. Attempted both a parliamentary and an armed coup in Venezuela, starved them and blocked their assets from feeding their people. Left 400,000 of his own people to die. Given massive tax cuts to US oligarchs, removed health care from working people, encouraged violent right wing extremists, called for violence against left wing demonstrators and journalists and set worker against worker. This guy is less of a Fascist than AOC?

Trump is capitalist so he won't be innocent guy, as he still serves ruling class.

Trump is first from recent presidents who went without any major war. Despite lot of angry words.

It was not his idea to use drone assassinations, but he likes it, I suppose, same as any democratic guys, like AOC.

Re-instigated punishing sanctions in Cuba.

His sponsors asked for this :-) Lot of rich ex Cuban guys in southern states.

Has kept troops in Iraq and Afganistan.

Ruling clas kept them, Trump constantly reduced the count of soldiers with military resisting to all this.

Attempted both a parliamentary and an armed coup in Venezuela

That failed miserably, partly due to leak that could come from Trump.

Left 400,000 of his own people to die.

You mean COVID? Only with HCQ mentioning this guy saved few millions worldwide. He even tried to save more talking about Vitamin D3 :-) but here media already cut it short.

Of course he don't have enough level himself and good team so all this look stupid, but ruling class never intended to save any lives, only to profit and kill as much as possible.

Right guys had been very interesting during covid months this year, as they tried to save economy (as they rely on smaller firms and individual businesses) and pinky left wanted to kill almost all petty bourgeoisie, as their main friends are big IT guys.

Also pinky left (AOC including) made everything to block any partial solutions. Like faking research and blocking HCQ and Zync information and prescriptions, blocking role of Vitamin D3 and so on. Blocking information about good masks and not providing proper gear for medical workers (forcing them to work all day in horrible N95 masks and frequently also in the plastic clothing).

It was them who made famous 180 turns - "We can't block flights as it is racism" to "Trump did not blocked fights and he is responsible for all this", "we don't need masks" to "everyone must wear cheap mask and previously we just lied to you to get masks for medical workers:.

Given massive tax cuts to US oligarchs

This guys promised to return workplaces, but lied and smiled.

Removed health care from working people

It is complex thing, as almost 100% of this is financed using US debt and also help to extremely inflate any medical services prices.

He tried to make it closer to real capitalism that US can afford, not too good for poor people.

Encouraged violent right wing extremists

He used them, as any capitalist is doing. But some of militias are not so right wing as media tell you.

called for violence against left wing demonstrators and journalists and set worker against worker.

Samples?

This guy is less of a Fascist than AOC?

This guy is greedy capitalist, bad and nasty, and AOC is standing for building open and extreme fascism. Just remember fascism definition and how it frequently comes with left like words and proclamations.

In the end I have to say that I’ve always been intrigued by what a contemporary Russian Marxist has to say. I would like to see reasoned enlightenment, and often I do, but in this instance, I think you’ve jumped the shark.

I am not typical Mordor Marxist as I am around 100 kilometers more left than any of them. Typical Marxists are stuck in the early 20th century and turned Capital and Lenin works int he new bible. It is just like new church now. And other guys are just businessman who use rhetoric to gain money.

Maybe you see a reforming politician as an obstacle, as if the working class won’t rise up and seize their Socialist future unless they are ground into the dirt.

I think it is stupid illusion. As is any "reforming politician".

Working class first needs smart people, organizers and professional party what is firmly living in 21th century.

Ad still you need to understand reality, as working class in US is not really stupid, it understands that despite all this nice pinky left word about dirt and really hard work it still lives much much better than 90% of other workers in the world. And it also understands that most of it is based on strong military presence, printed money and lot of other things. Even to just keep current level of life without printed trillions they'll be forced to work 3-5x more intense..

So, left core interests lie not in the AOC promoted things. They lie in the destruction of stock market, debt market, insurance system, IT giants. This is where the enemy lines are. And AOC stands, like Rambo, with machine gun, on their side.

There is no way you could say that the conditions for a socialist revolution are anywhere near existing there. Maybe AOC is the best you can get at the moment. The country is so poorly educated, so inward looking and so backward in many ways. We may want them to rise up and break their chains but “those who do not move do not notice their chains”.

Actually AOC is doing all against socialist revolution, as it uses fully proper race questions to try to punish most educated parts of society who actually can and must be leading force of revolution. Yes, not black masses. Black and others will just join (but not all and it will be conflict), as now they play role similar to that peasants had in early 20th century.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

AOC and her friends very much like vaccine to get money from pharma, but Vitamin D3 is not really good for their life contrary to life of people around.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

I have determined that the declaration of a national emergency at our southern border in Proclamation 9844 of February 15, 2019 (Declaring a National Emergency Concerning the Southern Border of the United States), was unwarranted. It shall be the policy of my Administration that no more American taxpayer dollars be diverted to construct a border wall.

Biden has suspended the legal wall erected by Trump known as the “Remain in Mexico” policy that drastically cut asylum fraud and ensured border crossers were not released into the interior of the U.S.

Both is done on the request of large companies like Amazon.

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