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What do we know about the novel coronavirus?
  • 3274 Replies sorted by
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @G3550D

    It is just bad journalism, as it is lot and lot of people who came to similar ideas about 5G :-) Not one.

  • zcreamzcream

    More time goes by, the virus will mutate to less harmful forms. Ultimately it will be another flu

  • G3550DG3550D

    @Vitaly "Bad Journalism" - I don't think so. Exposing "previously unidentified individual who reached millions of people with his detailed but nonsense claims that Covid-19 is a fake disease covering for the impact of 5G" That seems to me to be a valid task for journalists. In the crazy world of social media we need journalists to test the provenance of such widely circulated claims.

  • OblikovalnikOblikovalnik

    @Kurth - Ouch, there really are a lot of biases toward the 'so called' Eastern Europe, but I will have to add;

    You might say we are accustomed to quietly being tortured by our ruling class, semi-competent vassals, that have sprung out of the so called ' transition ' period, taking the prestige ( and some percentages ) by selling off of our communal property. I would not disagree here.

    But I think this is not enough to explain the big disparity in the results so far

    I am thinking here;

    Bigger belief in science? ( could be ) and with that correlates with lower trust in authority

    They, in my view were too late here as well, but had some luck later on.

    I am from Slovenia, and during the outbreak in Bergamo a lot of our medical staff has gone skiing to Italy. After they returned they went working without being quarantined, so they were actually one of the biggest transmitors. It took the institute of public health two weeks to get their act together. People were observing this and they panicked, taking the quarantine very seriously. I am observing the results so far and they seem better than expected - maybe it really is a kind of testimony of a respect for the incompetence of our authority ( ugh ).

    At the end it turned out that the region that had the least number of cases is the region bordering with Italy - counterintuitively, especially considering that the border here was completely open and people were working and taking short trips on both side of the border, even after the shit hit the fan in Italy ( Bergamo is three hour drive from there ).

    The thing is; people in the border region are bilingual - they speak Italian and read Italian newspapers, so I think this good awareness of the things on the ground in Italy helped here a lot. I checked everything I could read here and on reddit with a friend who is reading Italian newspapers regularly..

    It was similar in Croatia - people were afraid of the fact that their health system might collapse really fast - for the others I don't know.

    I still think only this does not explain the difference in the numbers - they are really big here.

    I heard something about the obligatory tuberculosis shot, that could play a big part, but didn't have the time to check it in detail. I see this difference as a really big thing, which will probably have to be explained outside of just 'cultural habits'. Let's wait and see.

    About the biases; People here and there are similar ( but with a different history ) that's what is really great about this kind of global forums ( thx VK)

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @G3550D

    That seems to me to be a valid task for journalists. In the crazy world of social media we need journalists to test the provenance of such widely circulated claims.

    No, it is not valid task, as journalist do not understand even basic things. And made hiself look like idiot.

    Guardian journalism level in this epidemic is among lowest bar if even not below ground.

  • kurthkurth

    @Oblikovalnik ....I meant no discredit to the people, only to the ruling elite structures and their influence that remained in place, but you just said it more eloquently yourself....but you didn't mention the lack of testing attributed as the reason in the article I posted ? We all know right now our most effective weapon is social distancing and of course masks, which can be looked upon as a social distancing multiplying factor by itself. And of course what you attribute to a good healthy paranoid response is another , maybe even better, explanation for why people were so easily persuaded to self isolate, rather than my pedantic explanation. I was really offering an alternative take on @Vitaliy's post who said the reason was because they were essentially more intelligent...i.e. held a greater level of scientific knowledge.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @Oblikovalnik

    I am from Slovenia, and during the outbreak in Bergamo a lot of our medical staff has gone skiing to Italy. After they returned they went working without being quarantined, so they were actually one of the biggest transmitors. It took the institute of public health two weeks to get their act together. People were observing this and they panicked, taking the quarantine very seriously. I am observing the results so far and they seem better than expected - maybe it really is a kind of testimony of a respect for the incompetence of our authority ( ugh ).

    It is not incompetence in hierarchical system, they did not get the order, did not get their boss opinion - so they just did that they like. You don't need to think, you need to follow procedures.

    Here it is also hospitals that are biggest source of infection as almost no one have proper protection or even care. All of this people wait for boos to save them, to give order. Despite it takes 1-2 hours to find good respirator and make it relivered to your door. All of them can afford it (as it is life at stake).

    Just today visited local linic - no one at the registry desk had any masks on (only one had it, and it was on her neck :-) ).

    During February flu epidemic in best local hospital (at the time it had been closed to visitors due to internal epidemy) around 10% of medical staff used masks properly, 40% did not use them at all.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @kurth

    who said the reason was because they were essentially more intelligent...i.e. held a greater level of scientific knowledge.

    Vitaliy did not say this. I just said that this countries still have remains of scientific approach(!) that had been tought in schools and university, contrary to very narrow approach typical to western education that produces precisely tuned conveyer workers (even if they use their head for work, ti is same).

  • kurthkurth

    @Vitaliy ...insinuated. And we all know work everywhere for any kind of business or capitalist venture even gov funded is a form of slavery. The biggest difference is in the west you can walk whenever you want....unless someone works for intel, and then they're probably compromised , if their work is deemed essential. I don't think there was much social mobility thru changing jobs in the soviet bloc.

  • kurthkurth

    I like this guy. He's got a sophisticated hometown doctor thing going.....

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @kurth

    The biggest difference is in the west you can walk whenever you want....unless someone works for intel, and then they're probably compromised , if their work is deemed essential.

    You just falling in the trap made by ruling class and their presstitutes.

    Lenin’s definition of freedom illustrates clearly the difference between genuine and false humanism, between ‘humanism’ and humanism. The ‘humanist' sees freedom as the permission to publicly slander his government The humanist who resembles Lenin reckons a free person to be one who does not have to fear unemployment and a hungry old-age, and who is free of fear over the fate of his children.

    Lion Feuchtwanger

  • kurthkurth

    @Vitaliy ....actually that trap was from my personal experience. And the american experience was fundamentally intertwined with the mobilization and freedom to choose where we worked, how long we worked there, and even if we chose not to work at all. But looking at the above quote, I'd say both definitions are only half of the fundamental aspects of being free. You would have to combine the humanist and the leninist definition to be really free. Even if people are free of suffering, they still aren't really free unless they're able to criticize their governments. Lenin's definition uncomfortable describes the matrix world too. Without both aspects, no one is free.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @kurth

    Again, you want to find some place between two classes, but it is empty space in it, no firm position in this space.

    "There are two classes, the proletariat and the bourgeoisie... And whoever isn't on one side is on the other".

    J. Reed

    As being on capitalists side now is not very comfortable, people try to invent some nice looking space. :-) But it is just self calming trick.

    Even if people are free of suffering, they still aren't really free unless they're able to criticize their governments.

    It is bullshit, as only point in critic is if you can make thing better, actually can. And in western world it is just making waves in the air. You will be surprised and shocked that happened in socialist country if founded critic had been published even in small local newspaper, or send as letter signed by workers of factory or so on.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

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  • kurthkurth

    @Vitaliy ...Reed's book is great, but was timely. He spoke only about the world in front of him. 19th century american railroad barons and russian tsars. Criticism is always directed at change , but not only to make things better, maybe just to make things different, but always for the freedom of personal expression. And I'm sure all those stalin critics with hundreds of workers signatures published in small local papers last about 2 days before their disappearance.

  • kurthkurth

    volunteer to go to mars w/o life support ? ..... https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/494417-controversial-idea-to-speed-coronavirus-vaccine-gains-ground

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @kurth

    .Reed's book is great, but was timely. He spoke only about the world in front of him. 19th century american railroad barons and russian tsars.

    This quite is not about the book. This quote is about your attempts to find some nice place in between, to not take position. As one position is obviously bad (and it is much harder to sit on exploiters side now) and to take another position you are not prepared, or being afraid.

    Thing that is happening now with all this coronavirus and seemingly fast ruling class tactical victory is as follows - people started to see opposing forces size (it is tiny amount of big capitalists), started to understand that they are their direct enemies and started to slowly undertand core class interest and take proper position that allow to advance to archieve them.

    Criticism is always directed at change , but not only to make things better, maybe just to make things different, but always for the freedom of personal expression.

    It is all nice words, but if you do not own means of production it is just nice words without any real force behind.

    And I'm sure all those stalin critics with hundreds of workers signatures published in small local papers last about 2 days before their disappearance.

    You so bad know history, very bad. People who lived in this time could think that you are joking or have some big head impact.
    Two periods of time ruling class paint with blackest pain they can find - 1930s in Russia and Culture Revolution period in China. Why? Because it is periods of creativity of the masses, social creativity, that also resulted in many bureaucrats and other advanced groups issues. They later wrote many books full of tears, can check Chinese ones.

  • kurthkurth

    negative hydroxy study .... https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2765270?utm_source=For_The_Media&amp%3butm_medium=referral&amp%3butm_campaign=ftm_links&amp%3butm_term=042420

  • kurthkurth

    I loved this book too.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago

  • zcreamzcream

    His wife questioned the legitimacy of the book. @kurth https://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/06/world/natalya-reshetovskaya-84-is-dead-solzhenitsyn-s-wife-questioned-gulag.html

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @kurth

    I loved this book too.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago

    Shitty fantasy book, no one take it serious for looong time. Much better is same author speech on how you need to bomb the communists with atomic bombs (to prevent their ideas spreading :-) ).

    Btw, book creation story is really nice, we have big long research book by Ostrovsky on how parts of our elites (some of them had been dream of capitalism at the time) created this book using author as compilator and literature editor.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Mordor news

    Do you need to wear masks? Well our goverment made nice research on this.

    Medics who mostly weared nothing or surgical masks (usually wrong way) while dealing with coronavirus patients are getting this illness in staggering amounts. 21% Moscow medics who treated coronavirus patients already have antibodies.

  • G3550DG3550D

    Two more revelations today from the Guardian. The first reveals that Johnson has appointed his political hatchet man Dominic Cummings to the now secretive scientific body Sage which is investigating strategies against CV19 in the UK. The second looks at the genesis of Trumps 'thinking' on disinfectant 'cures'. While articles like these these do not advance our understanding of CV19, they do illuminate the ways in which the USA and UK governments are operating and that is the job of an honest newspaper. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-dominic-cummings-on-secret-scientific-advisory-group-for-covid-19 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-leader-group-peddling-bleach-cure-lobbied-trump-coronavirus

  • jleojleo

    maybe another way Trump got the idea of drinking stuff to kill COV is from chatting with Modi :) Trump: That piss looks just like Pine Sol and Lysol! It must work, they all look healthy, lol!

    A Hindu group hosted a cow urine drinking party on Saturday as they believe it wards off the coronavirus, as many Hindus consider the cow sacred and some drink cow urine believing it has medicinal properties.

    “We have been drinking cow urine for 21 years, we also take bath in cow dung. We have never felt the need to consume English medicine,” said Om Prakash, a person who attended the party.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-india-cow-urine-pa-idUSKBN2110D5

  • jleojleo

    Indoctrinate them young:

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