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Driftwood Cluster X Series 4:│Moon T8│Spizz T7
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  • @Shaveblog It's odd that you would bury the lede like that. I clearly stated that I'm using the recommended card, and had no luck spanning. The first was a full card, so couldn't record another small clip, and the other tricks (record a short clip, turn off/on) didn't work either.

    And then you say your play-back "may have to do with the fact" that you removed "Pasadena" (which is clearly not a standard step when installing the patch) almost as an aside. But if that is a way to get consistent (or in my case any) in-camera playback, it would appear to be a pertinent piece of information for @driftwood as those of us with external recording would likely accept lesser audio to sync with in exchange for the ability to review clips in the camera.

    Thanks for the tip

  • I think that is the point of this type of testing... This is like an alpha or maybe a beta test.

  • @driftwood or anyone really "Subsequently, you get a finer low frequency matrix that strives to knock out artefacting at the expense of QP and higher bitrates." What does QP stand for?

  • @inukhiphop I followed you advice and disabled the audio settings (Pasadena) and I confirm that in-camera playback is working now. By the way, I am using 64gb 95mb/s Sandisk SD card.

  • Great tips guys - will try.

  • @inukhiphop I'm getting in camera playback and i didn't remove any audio settings... And i don't even have that expensive sandisk 95mbps everyone is always raving about.

  • Quantization parameters QP

  • Just briefly tried both "T8" and "Spizz T7" for HBR 25p. Naturally I first tried the T8. To my surprise the footage looked very noisy and pixalated. I got suspicious and reinstalled the hack, but result were the same!!! Spizz T7 looks very good though, better than all other hacks I had tried for shooting 25p. Unfortunately it doesn't span (i use sandisk extremepro 95mb/s 64gb). The camera stops recording after 5 to 15 minutes. Is there any way at all to solve this issue, like disabling audio settings etc.? (I looked for the so called "pasadina" audio hacks in Ptool3 but couldn't find any)...

  • @babak I dnt know if this procedure will solve you problem. In order to disable pasadena, go to audio settings and uncheck all the options under it. By the way, shooting at 24p, I could not see the issues you described.

  • Here's my first quick test with Moon T8:

    Shot with my 50mm Nikon f1.8, which is quite a soft lens. ISO was never higher than 500, smooth profile, all -2, 24H.

    First impressions are that I'm very happy with the images coming out of it. Very clean at low/moderate ISOs, pretty sharp, no artifacts that I've noticed. I really like the colour, and would agree about skin tones as someone mentioned earlier.

    Shooting on a Sandisk 95mbps card, I didn't have any problem with playback, and didn't even need to turn it off and on again. Spanning also seems to work fine.

    Bitrate for these shots was between 64 - 111mbps.

    Overall, looking very promising!

  • @marciocons thanks but the idea originated with @Shaveblog

    @TATZU and @jebsly I was attempting to max-out the video bitrate with Moon T8 24H (wide-angle lens, lots of small moving elements in the image) and believe I did from looking at the stream parser results. I have since been able to get in-cam playback, with short clips at an average bitrate of about 50mbps (poorly lit, interior, shot with a Nikon 50mm). Perhaps it's only when you hit that max bitrate with the video that the audio settings make a difference for in-cam playback? I will try to replicate my treetop test today with just the audio settings reverted to stock, to see if I can playback the shot in-cam.

    With that said, a quick look at the Moon T8 image does seem superior to T7, and the one quick shot of my skin tone (a light brown/beige) does seem subjectively more pleasing and more consistent than it did with T7, which was more than acceptable.

  • Glad to see my recommendation to remove the Pasadena Audio hacks from T8 restores in-cam playback for those shooting on a fast enough SD card. Attached is a JPG of the ticked Ptool boxes you want to untick - be sure to untick the boxes AFTER loading the original T8 patch but BEFORE saving the modified version to your SD card. This should make your T8 24H clips playable in-cam, even though the FCPX import bug remains to be addressed.

    Guys, this is a beta testing thread. If you want to help Nick improve this patch, lower your noise and raise your signal. Be helpful with your feedback, which means including relevant data (not just "I having a SD card" but what card is it, were you shooting 24H or 24L, etc. - even my cheap-ass Transcends can reliably span T8 if I shoot lower bitrate 24L).

    And don't worry about grading your test footage or adding Starbucks muzak, in fact don't bother posting "test footage" at all unless you're seeing problems with the video - we all know Nick's patches look good when properly installed and your GH2 isn't broken, you're not adding anything productive to his feedback loop with three mins of graded tsotchke closeups and Stereolab unless you're seeing some repeatable problems and want to bring them to Nick's attention. He's not looking for good looking T8 footage. He knows it looks good. He wants to hear about problems so he can fix them. Keep the thread focused on that and you'll get the new improved T8.x much faster.

    unpas.jpg
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  • I shot a test clip with T8 on the 24p low setting and had an average bitrate of around 80mbps. Then I shot a few on the high setting and averaged around 73-75mbps. It is my understanding that this is a variable bitrate setting based on the results from my tests and the reported findings of other users. Larger file sizes of 140-150mbps do not concern me, in fact I have become accustomed to them by now. @driftwood Is there any possibility of releasing a more fixed bitrate version? I like to get as much encoded info as possible, it seems that a lot of bitrate is sacrificed with this patch. I however an not the expert so my opinion doesn't count for much, just my two cents. Thank you Driftwood for everything you have done so far!

  • @shaveblog Thanks for the jpg - very helpful.

  • @driftwood Further testing with both SanDisk Extreme 45MB/s and SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s 64GB SD cards shows the same FCPX import error with 24H footage, but 24L footage has no issues with FCPX import at all.

    The odd thing is this doesn't appear to be simply a matter of excessive bitrate with the 24H settings, as T8 seems no higher in terms of bitrate than your other all-I patches like T7 and IV2, which FCPX has never had problems rewrapping to H.264.

    I confirmed that the importing errors occur whether I ask FCPX to import only (just H.264 rewrap) or to transcode to ProRes 422.

    Hope this helps you, Nick, and thanks for the new Moon. So far it's your best looking patch IMO, with more natural skin tone and detail than T7 or IV2.

  • @driftwood thank you so much for moon T8! its amazing

  • @driftwood thanks for clarifying! And thanks for t8! I notice i am getting pretty low bitrates with this hack does that mean the quality is less than t7? is there a way to make the bitrate equal or higher on average than t7 i have plenty of space on my sd cards and want the best quality possible out of my trusty old GH2 =D

  • If you're seeing significantly lower bitrate with Moon T8, you may be shooting 24L rather than 24H. Even if you didn't change any settings on your GH2, for some reason this happened to me too - I shot some test clips of what I assumed was 24H after reinstalling T8, but when I checked the bitrate it hovered around 70-80MB, which is what you should see from 24L clips using this patch.

    I normally have 24H assigned to the GH2's C1 setting on the mode dial, with C2 set for 24L and C3 set for the "16mm Tri-X B&W" Ex Tele trick. So I went into the camera menu and set everything all over again to my usual 24H settings, assigned that again to C1, and shot some new test clips. This time they were all around 130-150MB as they should be with T8 at 24H.

    If you're seeing very low bitrates and you think you're shooting 24H, go ahead and reset your camera manually to 24H and see if that doesn't sort things.

  • @Shaveblog I agree with you except I enjoyed seeing the videos of what people created with Driftwood's work, even if they were post processed. It showed some of the potentialities of the hack regardless of processing or content.

  • Long time stalker 1st time posting. Tested Moon T8 today with a Scandisk Extreme 45MB card and some FD lenses, recording doesn't span, playback worked fine on files below the spanning mark but not the files that fail to span. Looks amazing as always thanks to the genius that is @driftwood.

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  • Thanks so much @driftwood for your great work here. Here are some cropped stills from short clips I shot with T8 and Spizz T7 (taken from transferred footage in FCP7 timeline – footage shot on sandisk 95mbs 64gb, with canon fd 50mm f1.8 lens, aperture on 5.6). I have been specially looking at HBR qualities. There is an HUGE DIFFERENCE between HBR and 24H on T8 which is very surprising. The HBR footage looks very pixelated around the edges and very noisy, practically unusable. These differences were less extreme with Moon T7. With Spizz T7 the HBR footage looks much better than T8(bit rates: 71.3 & 68.5mbps). But unfortunately Spizz T7 doesn't span...

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    SpizZ-T7-HBR.jpg
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    T8-24H.jpg
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  • Thank you @marciocons for your explanation about disabling 'pasadena'. I still have to try that. I too wonder if that will help the spaning problem.

  • @babak Intra HBR 25p setting = just not enough power in the GH2 because its progressive structure is wrapped in a interlaced picture and HBR logarithms takes around twice the processing economics out of the codec than 720p. HBR30 being 3 GOP isn't as bad.

    For HBR recordings try Spizz T7. I believe its the best looking HBR (3 GOP with B frames) and 720p (6 GOP with B frames) around at the moment.

    DREWNET T10

    Im just finalising the new DREWnet T10 'ClassiX' GOP (12 PAL/15NTSC), the 24p setting is using a newly developed 'Intravenus v3' matrix (4,4,4,127,4,4,4,127,etc...) which renders all recordings at a constant 80Mbps (the quanitser automatically changes dependent on the detail. This matrix is the finest (non coarse) hi/low frequency matrix ever implemented on the GH2.

    Its extrememly powerful and can only be created on the DREWnet setting to achieve bottom QP of 14 on a 12/15 GOP (An Intra variation would cost around 280Mbps to achieve this so its impossible to implement on a GH2 - however, a frame /bitrate limited moon setting for close up/mid shot/ less detail shots is possible - requests accepted!). Skintones are breathtaking and grading is a pleasure. It'll be released soon.

    Here's a picture of a 24p DREWnet T10 ClassiX render in Elecard Streameye.

    DDREWnet T10 - Standard profile -2-2-2-2 graded.png
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  • @driftwoon thanks for your feedback and explanations. I noticed spizz T7 is the best for shooting 25p. But as I said it just doesn't span in my camera. (BTW this T10 picture is really breathtaking as you say.)

  • @driftwood Are you seeing the same import error with FCPX and T8 I described or is it just me?