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Help to decide: RX10/100 or Nx500 or A6000 or G(x)7
  • Hi everyone, I'm currently using a GX7 with the PanaLeica 25 1.4 and a 14mm 2.5 as my main camera. It does great, but sometimes I miss more dynamic range and more DOF, so I'm considering moving to an APS system. I mainly use my camera for video, but also need a cam that takes good pics.

    Do you thing the A6000 with the 16-50, 35 1.8 and sigma 60 2.8 would be an improvement over my actual equipment? I have no rigs so stabilised lenses are a plus for video. Ideally I'll get a EM5 (II) but the video seems kinda lacking.

    On the other side, 4k is very appealing, since I can get better 1080 and crop to stabilise clips, so I'm considering the NX500. I could get the NX500 with the 16-50, the 30 f2 and maybe the 45 1.8. Would this be a better choice, considering overall image quality?

    What are your thoughts on lowlight video with this cameras? Does the APS sensor a better job than m4/3? Also any of those other lenses are comparable to the PanaLeica? I like how it renders everything. Which leads me to maybe even consider the G7 and keep the lenses, only the 25mm and then get the 14-42 kit.

    Maybe that option makes more sense unless there's a considerable difference with any of the other combos.

    I would love to get 120fps (i know the nx500 does it at 720) but the NX1 or GH4 are out of my range. So I'm even considering the new RX100 iv, since the zoom range works great for me, would that be a step back? Specially DR and lowlight performing or the SLOG is an advantage?

    Please let me know your thoughts and experiences so I can clear up my mind!

    Cheers

  • 22 Replies sorted by
  • The RX10 has the most DR, probably best in low light, has log plus sony's cine profiles, slow mo, Zeiss lens, long zoom range, image stabilization, constant aperture, it should have same IQ as a7s, a7rii... Only thing youll be missing is ability for super-shallow DOF.

  • @theconformist - how would the rx10 have the best lowlight capabilities on that list ?

  • @kurth Apparently the stacked sensor technology really helps cut down on noise, despite the 1" size. I think generally it should better, however an APS-C sensor with a fast lens would probably beat it.

  • You know current NX500 sale price, yep?

  • @theconformist Thanks for your input, that's interesting I didn't expect the 1" sensor to perform that way in lowlight, if it's anywhere close to what I get with the GX7 and the 25 1.4, I'm sold. I'll have to look at that. Dynamic range I've read it's pretty good with SLOG but that's new to me and don't know how it compares to the bigger sensors.

    @vitaly_kiselev I'know the price it's going down, unfortunately not in spain, at least yet. I keep an eye on it as this camera at least specs wise it's pretty impressive.

  • The NX500 isn't fun to edit, no one really supports it yet. So that means transcoding. You'll also want a 4k monitor which adds at least $300 or so to the budget unless you have one.

  • The NX500 isn't fun to edit, no one really supports it yet. So that means transcoding.

    Nope.

    http://www.cyberlink.com/products/powerdirector-ultra/features_en_US.html?&r=1

    Also, transcoding if you use simple batch approach are not really limiting factor.

    You'll also want a 4k monitor which adds at least $300 or so to the budget unless you have one.

    You absolutely do not need 4K monitor to edit 4K.

  • But have you tried Cyberlink? It's a $50 editing platform. I'd encourage the OP to try the trial version before going with the Samsung.

    I didn't say you "need" a 4k monitor. I said you'll want one if you want an accurate representation of the footage you've recorded.

    You're points are fair though considering OP is looking at budget level cameras.

    Investing in a cheap 4k monitor was the best thing I ever did for my Samsung 4k. I have friends who shoot with FS700's (w/odyssey) and for some reason won't spend for a basic 4k monitor. Seems common out there because so many bloggers are saying don't buy 4k monitor because the technology isn't mature enough. I think that's stupid for the aforementioned reason and other reasons too.

  • It's a $50 editing platform

    It does not matter how much it costs (suite packs cost more, btw).

    It matters that you can normally work without any transcoding, contrary to statement.

    Strong predisposition to consumer or cheap packages is one of the worst thing I see in the video community.

    Yet qualification of most is so low that consumer program could actually help :-).

    I said you'll want one if you want an accurate representation of the footage you've recorded.

    Lots of people edit 4K on 1080p monitors, and it has nothing to do with accuracy of footage.

    4K monitor or TV can be good, but it is good for either FullHD or 4K footage, and it is same for every camera mentioned.

  • I think, honestly, you will see less of a difference than you hope from any of these cams. Biggest limitation people have is not simply learning to work with the materials at hand. I have not shot GX7, but I am sure it is a great cam, just as GH1, GH2, GH3 are still all capable of great results. People get really caught up in new bells and whistles, but the differences are rarely as huge as you would think.

    If you need depth of field shallower than you can get with the 25 1.4, moving to a 1" sensor is not the answer. APS-C is not a massive difference from 4/3, in my experience. You should either buy fast glass (Voigtlanders), get a speedbooster, or move to a full frame system. The difference there is much more pronounced. That being said, I very rarely find need to shoot m4/3 cameras at less than f2 or so.

    If you need 4k and not heavily invested in non-compatible glass, the NX500 / NX1 is a no brainer right now. I agree that the transcoding issue is not that big of a deal unless you are working commercial gigs regularly.

    I know some people are wild about it, but in my opinion cropping 4K in place of stabilization isn't really adequate, although it can help on occasion. More of a emergency fix than something to base your entire shooting style around, in my opinion.

  • @theconformist -

    https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2015/06/24/sony-rx100-iv-first-shots

    this shows there's almost no improvement with the new sensor at iso1600 over the mkiii. Not to be blunt, and I love the rx10ii and it's got many things going for it, but there's no way it will compete with an aps sensor in lowlight at higher iso's, period, regardless that sony stacked the sensor all the way to friggin' china ...imho !

    The op should decide if he wants 4k, and then that should open up a whole different list of cameras, for example the g7 and gx8, or wait for sony's rumored a6000 upgrade which will have 4k and xavc and a new rumored 16-50. His list is comparing apples to oranges.

    I'd recommend ....wait, and use the camera you've got, or if you want 4k & 240fps, buy the rx10/rx100, but don't buy it thinking you'll get better lowlight than your m43.

  • or wait for sony's rumored a6000 upgrade which will have 4k and xavc and a new rumored 16-50

    As far as rumors go, new Sony a6500 or such is even worse than latest rx100 considering overheating. Not suitable for any video work, in other way, except very short ones with good pauses.

  • considering overheating

    well, I'd guess they're working on a solution, thus the delay. From the dr rumors, that's enough to wait.

  • Thanks for your input, I honestly would love to see that A6500, if it has a 5axis stabilisation and of course doesn't overheat. The RX100 IV I like it a lot, but even though it will open some new doors with the slow and all that I might be a bit limited, so maybe in the future it will be an excellent second cam. 4K it would be nice, so maybe I should just focus between the G7 and the NX500. Between these two you guys think the NX is a better option, what about their lenses? The other option I guess is to wait a bit longer and see what's coming up in the near future!

    Regarding 4k monitors, I don't have one yet, but I'm planning (at some point) in getting the iMac 5k.

  • If you are bothered by moire and aliasing, don't get the Samsung. Many of the reviews insist Samsungs don't alias, totally false. The cameras suffer from it, worse than GH-xx, bmpcc, A7s. A lot of people accept and tolerate such anomalies -- if you're such a person, Samsung is a good choice. For resale, Samsung gear is hard to sell. I've never had issues dumping Panny gear.

  • @brianl huh! interesting, I've never heard of moire and aliasing on the nx500, but that something to consider. I definitely don't won't that. As far as Samsung goes, I'm a bit reticent as them being a "new" brand into the photography world, but if the sensors are as good as they say I might be willing to take the risk.

  • If you are bothered by moire and aliasing, don't get the Samsung. Many of the reviews insist Samsungs don't alias, totally false.

    You have many samples? As NX1 and NX500 are very different in scaling.

    I also know that if you exclude cameras that do something bad with scaling or skipping lines you have very good image usually. And under "aliasing" different people understand different things :-)

    As for selling gear. It depends on your location and talents. As some guys can't sell Canon or Nikon :-) In many places Panasonic is much worse than Samsung (for mirrorless), with horrible service and distribution network.

  • I was fortunate enough to buy both the Sony a6000 and the RX10 ( I also have the a5100, but that's not in this discussion). Having come up from the 4/3'rds ranks I am extremely happy with a6000. The picture quality will not disappoint. The picture quality of the rx10 is also very good, that 1" sensor surprised me. Now where the rx10 excels is in the video department. It offers audio in/out, clean hdmi for a atomos ninja or the like, the 50mbps codec, nd filter, and really good glass. But here's the clincher, at least for me. It does not overheat! A6000 and 5100, after about 15 mins you get the thermometer signal and then a little while later shutdown. Once you overheat once you start getting less and less on time. Also if you are doing a lot of short takes the heat still accumulates. So ask yourself are you a photog that does some video? Or a Videographer that's sometimes takes pics. By the way the first thing I did was I set the rx10 on highest vid quality and let it roll, 30 mins of video. I did it over and over again. No overheat. If you want the highest quality pics for around 600 bucks, go I recommend the a6000, it will do high quality video just know it's limitations. If you are more videocentric go for the rx10, it will not disappoint in the pic department.

    Lastly dig into the menus and settings of these cameras. The one thing that an amateur like me enjoys about this forum is the wealth of information and experiences. Don't just settle for what P-mode or Intelligent-mode or whatever fancy name they give it. You can get so much more from whatever cam you have if you play with the settings, sharpness, manual white balance, etc. Heck go manual.

  • I shot an entire wedding, 16 hours with the A6000 and didn't have any overheating issues. And it was a scorching day with almost 30 degrees centigrade.

  • I can only tell you and others my personal experiences. The first time I used my a6000 was at a church event I left it on a tripod pressed record, verified that the preacher wasn't an overly dynamic one (stood still) and took my seat. I knew I had 29 mins, Came back to the cam 22 or so mins latter and the camera was off. I thought my batt had run out, changed the batt, I had several repeated process. On the third time I saw the thermometer.

    I called sony talked to the tech support, he was polite but emphasized the point, it's a aps-c sensor in a small body, heat management will always be an issue. He thus directed me to the new sony camcorder line with 1" sensors and said that if I intend to do a lot of long shots a true camcorder is the way to go.

    Once last thing I want to point is that in June my camera unexpectedly quit. I was at a parade the lcd quit, then the view finder, then nothing. I finished with my a5100, a pain in bright sunlight. By nightfall I tried it again, it came back with full functionality. In July I went to a family reunion. Half way through the week it quit, I finished off with the rx10. The a6000 was packed away and sent north to the sony authorized repair. 225 dollars and a week later I have a fully functional camera.

    It could be that I had a malfunctional camera but others on the Web have had the problems I have had. I love this camera and highly recommend it. I have the sigma 19mm and 60mm 2.8 lens, also the sony 18-135 f4. I have the Sony vpr cable remote and the pistol grip remote, by the way sony won't confirm it, but the remotes work just fine on a5100 and the rx10. I find that rather silly.

    The rx10 produces video equal in quality to my a6000, maybe even better in some situations. I don't how a 1" sensor does it. I have tried to read the tech stuff and have only a vague understand. Something to do using the whole sensor as opposed to line skipping or some such.

    I got my rx10 open box for 750. They are out there and can be found. The a6000 can also be found for less than I paid new.

  • An apology to oscillian and others, since getting my a6000 back from the shop and seeing that the firmware was upgraded to enable it to shoot xavc-s i had not done any real extensive video test. That is no longer the case. Today i literally tortured the poor thing but could not get it to overheat or shutdown. Maybe i did have a defective cam, The fact is I should have run these test before opining. Either way I now join in endorsing the a6000 for all day video shooting. Now i will have to do some testing on the a5100.