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Grind Grid - crazy matrices for GH2
  • After finishing developing of "The End NR4" patch, I perceived that the achievements in matrices could bring back an old project: "Grind Grid".

    The numbers and quantization found in The End made possible to find the best settings in matrices for these patches below.

    They try to introduce, to create a noise/texture pattern completely disrespecting the discrete cosine transform frequency. Of course this is experimental in terms of image results. But in terms of stability I think it will be the same of The End if you use The End ini files as a base.

    The first matrix in the "Grind Grid" project is called "PinWheel" because it uses this kind of shape in the matrices alternately using different intraframe/interframe and different I and P/B frames.

    This is my first matrix settings which uses different interframe, different I/P frames, and a mix of them in fallback, very interesting math combinations.

    It is good idea to try this patches in gop2 because in gop1 this does not make sense, the different matrices in I - P/B is what does the trick.

    So copy/paste these matrices below using "The End NR4 High104 Gop2-2-2-2-2" as a base. Deblocking Tables do not need changes. You can also use the "The End NR4 High104 Gop2-2-3-2-4" because it can be more stable in NTSC.

    I am using just four different numbers, the most significant numbers used in The End, and looking at the draw below you can perceive there are almost infinite combinations in the pixels, this are the two first attempt. The draw is just a simple view. The luma and chroma matrices have different values, the I and P/B frames also different values, shape alternates between I and P/B. It is possible to make the alternation to be vertical, horizontal, two, three or four pixels together, almost infinite ways...

    You can see the inspiration here in this link:

    https://www.google.com.br/search?q=vane&biw=1920&bih=981&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=iokhVe-6MoHosAW2yoLwAg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=pinwheel&revid=1246846439&imgdii=_

    I also have many other handmade draws, I did them months ago but now it is possible to do due to the achievements from The End. Other draws are inspired on chessboard and other custom nature and geometric shapes... if I have time I will release some...

    It would be possible to use three draws in same patch, one draw for I, another for P another for B in a GOP6 setting, but I think using two draws in a GOP2 for just I/P can be better quality. The matrices below have two draws, one for I another for P/B.

    pinwheel_v1_v2.jpg
    564 x 524 - 28K
    pinwheel_v1.txt
    5K
    pinwheel_v2.txt
    4K
  • 25 Replies sorted by
  • Pinwheel v1 text file doesn't have difference between I and P/B scales?

    Pinwheel v2 has the effect differences and am now doing a image comparison vs End gop2 m36, in 24p.

  • Okay so my quick test results are interesting...

    Pinwheel v2 at iso 1600 is better image than End NR4 gop2 m36. The noise in the blacks and shadows appears less and smoother. Overall image is cleaner.

    At iso 640 there was blue channel issue. I think it might be my camera as I have seen this before when testing other patch settings. The extra blue shows mostly in midtones. I will have to test again at 640.

    Although I also compared End NR4 gop2 m36 vs MoonT8 at 640 iso. They are very comparable and warrant further testing between them. If pinwheel v2 is actually okay at 640 with no blue issue, then pinwheel might be an improvement over moon as well.

    Edit: I tested 640 again and the blue/luma increase is still there. Weird because it's fine at 1600.

    Edit2: With a little gamma change in post the 640 appears okay. I'm now comparing it to valkyrie and moon.

    Edit3: pinwheel v2 iso 640 post/grading shows mud.

  • @Apefos @Manicd While waiting for tests from Manicd, I also noticed a slight blue nuance in shadows when trying the Apefos_444_2 matrices (on the other side, colors are a little more vivid with that matrix).

    I also selected some good Gop2 patch taken from your works, with little changes. I will upload them later. They look to me very interesting and competitive with Gop1 patches.

    Thanks for now.

  • @Apefos @Manicd

    ALPHA = The last Gop 2 by Apefos, with little changes. Very sharp and clean. The 96 datarate is fine. At 128 everything works fine in my camera, except variable speed option.

    GAMMA = The last Gop 2 by Apefos with matrix 444_2nd version, and little changes.

    98348a1f63d782de0ac47e489b5a34.zip
    4K
    98348a1f63d782de0ac47e489b5a36.zip
    4K
  • Sorry, THESE are the correct uploads.

    822c885b1f17734e747653e17a447e.zip
    4K
    98348a1f63d782de0ac47e489b5a36.zip
    4K
  • @apefos And... Don't care about stupid people!

  • The upload below has the correct pinwheel V1, in first upload the v1 is wrong, here below it is correct.

    Also I created the V1b and V2b with a small difference to try to avoid the blue issue.

    pinwheel_v1.txt
    4K
    pinwheel_v1b.txt
    4K
    pinwheel_v2.txt
    4K
    pinwheel_v2b.txt
    4K
  • Here are all my draws about the "Grind Grid" project:

    I do not have more time to work on it, so you can use the numbers from the V1b and V2b to apply in the designs below:

    IMG00011.jpg
    640 x 480 - 72K
    IMG00012.jpg
    640 x 480 - 68K
    IMG00010.jpg
    640 x 480 - 77K
    IMG00013.jpg
    640 x 480 - 69K
    IMG00014.jpg
    640 x 480 - 76K
    IMG00015.jpg
    640 x 480 - 79K
    IMG00016.jpg
    640 x 480 - 65K
    IMG00017.jpg
    640 x 480 - 72K
    IMG00018.jpg
    640 x 480 - 69K
  • better quality photos from the draws, numbers are just first attempts so cannot be good, just use the draws design, use the numbers from txt files v1b and v2b because they are correct, also v1 and v2 can be good numbers.

    CAM00061.jpg
    1280 x 768 - 292K
    CAM00062.jpg
    1280 x 768 - 304K
    CAM00063.jpg
    1280 x 768 - 343K
    CAM00064.jpg
    1280 x 768 - 311K
    CAM00065.jpg
    1280 x 768 - 308K
    CAM00067.jpg
    1280 x 768 - 329K
    CAM00068.jpg
    1280 x 768 - 333K
    CAM00066.jpg
    1280 x 768 - 289K
    CAM00069.jpg
    1280 x 768 - 313K
  • Thanks. It is interesting but I need to read or understand more about matrices/settings/avchd before I do testing with something like this. And I begin to feel like is there anything left to improve with the patches?

  • I know nothing about matrices. What exactly does this affect? Color subsampling? How about some comparison images against "The End"?

  • matrices affect noise and texture.

  • These are more mature versions of "PinWheel":

    (if someone are willing to create matrices using the designs from the draws, then the numbers from these patches below can be good)

    the draws below shows when the matrices are side by side in the image, four matrices together. The different grey tones means the different numbers used in the matrix, there are four numbers in each matrix. Two pinwheels are created, one with the two small numbers, one with the two big numbers. the position of pinwheel changes between I and P/B frames. Two numbers used for each pinwheel to helps a better dithering in the image. there is a difference in v1 and v2 in the horizontal/vertical position of the numbers.

    versions d have a higher quantization in fallback to help denoise and blue issue. versions e the quantization in fallback are inbetween c and d.

    pinwheel_v1c.txt
    4K
    pinwheel_v2c.txt
    4K
    pinwheel_v1c_sidebyside.jpg
    1033 x 415 - 50K
    pinwheel_v2c_sidebyside.jpg
    1050 x 415 - 49K
    pinwheel_v1d.txt
    4K
    pinwheel_v2d.txt
    4K
    pinwheel_v1e.txt
    4K
    pinwheel_v2e.txt
    4K
  • animated gif showing the pinwheel v1 and v2 in action.

    v1.gif
    640 x 480 - 329K
    v2.gif
    640 x 480 - 323K
  • here it is, the grind grid pinwhell v2e gop2 patch:

    compare it versus the end nr4 all-intra or versus the end high104 gop2

    edit post: this version seems to show the rain problem.

    grind-grid_pinwheel_v2e_gop2.zip
    10K
  • GRIND GRID PINWHEEL V2D DEBLOCKING TABLES 6-36 PATCH

    This is the perfect matrix version, with correct deblocking tables, solves the rain problem.

    The image looks beautiful, remember me the old fashion dof adapter ground glass texture.

    in 24p iso 640 there is no mud, using the 24H recording mode. in iso 1600 some mud appears in 400% zoom, but less than the the end high104.

    this patch can be used as a base to develop new grind grid designs based on the handmade draws, using the same matrices numbers and same deblocking tables.

    grind-grid_pinwheel_v2d_dbt636.zip
    10K
    pinwheel_v2d_sidebyside.jpg
    1050 x 415 - 50K
    v2.gif
    640 x 480 - 323K
  • I did some tests now with the patch above, indoor / outdoor, in iso 640 24p 24H recording mode the pinwheel v2d shows good texture in dark areas, some kind of dithering in low light, delivers an interesting texture. in good light also works good. The noise seems to be more random and sandy. it is interesting to see when the image is in focus and start to become out of focus, turning into a bokeh, like a stained glass in church.

  • This is the pinwheel inverse:

    GRIND GRID PINWHEEL V2D "INVERSE" DEBLOCKING TABLES 6-36 PATCH

    It alternates the numbers small and big swapping the pinwheel position, see the gif.

    grind-grid_pinwheel_v2d_inverse_dbt636.zip
    2K
    pinwheel_v2d_inverse_sidebyside.jpg
    1050 x 415 - 53K
    v2_inverse.gif
    640 x 480 - 284K
  • Feedbacks welcome, mainly in 24H recording mode. Please compare the V2D, V2D inverse and the The End all intra.

  • I should try these on GH1 also ) But there is bitrate problems, so not so much freedom to manipulate them.

  • @humpman there are people who consider the GH1 image to be pretty good and use it until today... But I do not own it, so I cannot develop patches to it, sorry.

  • GRIND GRID JUMP

    The Grind Grid Jump uses the matrix design from the red/green hand made draw in the sheets above, it is one of the most random design I did and also P frames are the inverse of I frames for more texture generation in gop2.

    It is an attempt to create a new noise/texture pattern to the image. If you want to compare, compare it with Pinwheel, The End NR4 and Sharp_05 to perceive noise/texture differences in light and shadow areas.

    grind-grid_jump.zip
    10K
  • Anyone tried this? Seems to be a crazy digital daydream I did... The animated gifs are funny!

  • Oh, yes, they are funny. Thank you, I will try!