Computers and studio gear http://personal-view.com/talks/categories/computers-and-studio-gear/p12/feed.rss Fri, 17 May 24 17:05:58 +0000 Computers and studio gear en-CA HP Remote Graphics Software http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/15895/hp-remote-graphics-software Mon, 17 Oct 2016 04:40:49 +0000 flablo 15895@/talks/discussions Hi, I'm thinking of buying a new workstation for video editing (Adobe based) as my iMac seems not be enough. And Apple hardware offers for pro video editing are just ridiculous. The problem is that I feel so good with the OSX enviroment, getting back to Windows would be very difficult. I was thinking of keeping my Mac and user it to remote control a powerful PC when dealing with video applications. And I was thinking of HP RGS software http://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstations/remote-graphics-software.html . Has anybody some experience or advice in this regard? Thank you all

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The Lightest affordable portable solution for 4K offline video editing? http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/15792/the-lightest-affordable-portable-solution-for-4k-offline-video-editing Sun, 25 Sep 2016 11:18:16 +0000 Brig 15792@/talks/discussions What would it be?

So, I am looking for physicly the lightest laptop that can:

  • be easy to carry around and light enough so that my back feels pleased that I ditched my old 15" mbp
  • have stable and smooth run of AVID MC
  • have stable and smooth run of ADOBE PREMIERE
  • maybe even run FCP X (only as a last resort; I hate fcp X so would love not to use it anymore but some colabolators like it so... :(
  • play smoothly 4K footage from cameras like sony A7sII, panasonic GH4 and such l, in finder preview/vlc player/QT player and editors mentioned above.

I need it for offline editing of documentary features, mostly via proxy 2K files but if it can edit native 4K codecs without too much hickups that is a plus. I intend to do mostly cut only editing with occasional cross dissolves, filtering, playspeed alterations etc... No major CC, sound mix etc...that will be done in pro studio enviroment!

From what I see, 13" mbp could fitt the bill. I was especialy pleased with videos that demonstrate upgrading hardware on old MBP's from 2010/2012 in order to be as efficient as the latest models. But Is there anything in PC clan that I should look out for?

I expect it to be my portable solution for on location quick video interventions and offline edit suite for another year (until 4th quarter of 2017).

Oh and of course, I expect it to be priced cery very very reasonably (bellow 1500$).

Thanks IA for everyone's input!

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Intel: Future CPUs will be more power efficient, but not faster http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/14554/intel-future-cpus-will-be-more-power-efficient-but-not-faster Tue, 09 Feb 2016 09:43:06 +0000 Vitaliy_Kiselev 14554@/talks/discussions

Holt said Intel doesn’t yet know which new chip technology it will adopt, even though it will have to come into service in four or five years. He did point to two possible candidates: devices known as tunneling transistors and a technology called spintronics. Both would require big changes in how chips are designed and manufactured, and would likely be used alongside silicon transistors.

However, the new technologies Holt cited would not offer speed benefits over silicon transistors, suggesting that chips may stop getting faster at the pace that the technology industry has been used to. The new technologies would, however, improve the energy efficiency of chips, something important for many leading uses of computing today, such as cloud computing, mobile devices, and robotics.

Just small note, both mentioned techs are so far from real implementation and will bring so big price increase...

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/600716/intel-chips-will-have-to-sacrifice-speed-gains-for-energy-savings/

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Reasonable Mac Laptop for 4K Editing http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/15566/reasonable-mac-laptop-for-4k-editing Mon, 22 Aug 2016 23:08:57 +0000 matt_gh2 15566@/talks/discussions Hey all,

I'm looking to get a Mac Laptop for editing/color grading 4K footage (for feature films). How expensive a Mac Laptop do I need to get and still be able to edit and color grade 4K footage? Do you definitely need a quad core? Can you get decent performance from a dual core?

Thanks guys, Matt

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4k+ video editing workstation. http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/15617/4k-video-editing-workstation. Tue, 30 Aug 2016 11:56:21 +0000 Tommyboy 15617@/talks/discussions The never ending pursuit……………
The goal of this post is to build a custom PC solution that renders 4k+ footage with ease. I want to determine if this solution is more suitable than getting HP Z840 workstation.

In my own experience it is always better to go thru the process of building your own workstation to educate yourself on the latest best practices.

Hence my questions to be asked:

  • Vendor build workstation or custom build one?
  • CPU choice Xeon or I7 (Skylake generation)?
  • DDR 2133 or 2400 registered vs. unregistered memory modules?
  • Video card NVIDIA Quadro M6000 or NVIDIA TITAN X?
  • What about: Thunderbolt 3? *I don’t think Xeon CPU motherboards have the thunderbolt 3 feature.

I know a lot of these things will depend on the amount of money one can spend. However, I’m trying to find the middle ground between the two and see what can get me thru the next 4 years.

Things that I know and want:

  • High performance 4K+ editing workstation (time is money, money you can always make but you can’t get time back).
  • New CPU 12-20 cores (Intel SkyLake) Video (NVidia Pascal) architecture.
  • 64-128 GB of DDR4 memory.
  • USB 3.1 with Thunderbolt 3
  • M.2 SSD based on NVMe Protocol (PCIe, Gen. 3, x4) in Raid 0 for OS boot up and additional SSD in Raid 0 for Media.
  • Asus motherboards are really stable and I have no complains so far.
  • Editing software to be used: Blackmagic Resolve.
  • Backup to NAS storage.

I’m going thru the research phase at this time hence this post to gather all valid points for the next workstation for video editing. If anyone is going thru an upgrade process at this time please share your thought and experience.

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Convergent Design TITAN http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/15679/convergent-design-titan Wed, 07 Sep 2016 13:59:11 +0000 Vitaliy_Kiselev 15679@/talks/discussions

Many cameras can shoot in 4K today, but most clients still want HD. How can a 4K camera become an enhanced HD device? Introducing Titan.

Titan is the latest option for the Odyssey & Apollo monitor/recorders. Titan uses one 4K camera to create three HD video signals. One frame is a SuperSample of the full image area and two are windows selected from within the original input. These windows can be panned smoothly through the 4K field and the three angles can be Live-Switched. All four HD signals can be recorded simultaneously in Apple ProRes with matching timecode and file names.

  • Shoot a two-subject interview using one camera and Titan and record a Live-Switch of a two-shot plus separate close-ups.
  • Record a panel presentation with a wide master plus a single on the moderator and another of the panel, all from one camera.
  • Cover a House of Worship service with a shot of the clergyman, another of the chorus, and a wide view of them all – done with the modest investment of one camera and Titan.
  • With Titan and a single installed camera capture an entire football field from the 50 yard line, plus follow a player as he runs the course of the field.

Eliminate the render time of reframing in post. Deliver edited content as well as the complete separate angles to your client at the end of the shoot. Shoot a multi-cam job with a kit you can fit in a single backpack.

Titan accepts 4K video signals over HDMI and SDI (original Odyssey7Q limited to 3G-SDI). Titan also accepts 4K RAW data from the Sony FS5, FS7 & FS700 cameras. Live-Switching is available as cuts and dissolves, and an Edit Decision List is generated as an .EDL file for conforming an edit in post.

Titan is an option for the Odyssey7Q+, Odyssey7Q and Apollo monitor/recorders. Other options (Odyssey RAW Bundle or Apollo) are not required for Titan.

Titan list price is $1295, but Convergent Design will offer Titan for a limited time at an introductory price of just $995. Titan is expected to be available around the beginning of October.

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Finally! Proper rugged case for your computer. http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/15655/finally-proper-rugged-case-for-your-computer. Sun, 04 Sep 2016 08:17:48 +0000 Vitaliy_Kiselev 15655@/talks/discussions

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Kaby Lake HEVC decoders have limits http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/15628/kaby-lake-hevc-decoders-have-limits Wed, 31 Aug 2016 06:32:36 +0000 Vitaliy_Kiselev 15628@/talks/discussions image


For example it means that this generation will be unable to playback some HEVC 4k p60 footage made with upcoming cameras.

None of models will support HEVC 422 and 444 playback.

Processors will lack support for HDMI 2.0 ports with HDCP 2.2.

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suggestions for good bang for your buck 13" laptop http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/15623/suggestions-for-good-bang-for-your-buck-13-laptop Tue, 30 Aug 2016 13:10:56 +0000 brianl 15623@/talks/discussions Looking for a good value under 1k USD laptop for daughter. I keep hearing the Dell XPS 13. Any other recommendations?

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Mixing Geforce GTX with Quadro for 10-bit Monitor http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/15599/mixing-geforce-gtx-with-quadro-for-10-bit-monitor Mon, 29 Aug 2016 09:33:32 +0000 Stiffla 15599@/talks/discussions I was wondering, if anyone is using a Geforce card like GTX 980ti aside from e.g. Quadro k620? Plan is to use the k620 for 10-bit output to my Dell u3415, and the GTX for the computing power in Adobe premiere. I am aware that this might end in driver problems if using at the same time, but maybe someone managed to do so.

The alternative would be the Blackmagic Intensity 4k card.

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External GPUs for Macbooks and iMacs? http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/13732/external-gpus-for-macbooks-and-imacs Thu, 17 Sep 2015 13:42:58 +0000 QuickHitRecord 13732@/talks/discussions Has anyone used an Akitio Thunder2 or something similar to run a more powerful GPU on their Mac via Thunderbolt? Like this:

What have been your experiences as they pertain to editing, grading, and graphics work? Is there a way to do this that's less hack-y (i.e. prone to user error)?

There's also a product on the market called the 'BizonBox', but it appears that it may be a case of false advertising.

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NVIDIA TITAN X for $1200 http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/15570/nvidia-titan-x-for-1200 Tue, 23 Aug 2016 14:32:23 +0000 Tommyboy 15570@/talks/discussions GPU Engine Specs:

         -3584NVIDIA CUDA® Cores
         -1417Base Clock (MHz)
         -1531Boost Clock (MHz)

Memory Specs:
         -10 GbpsMemory Speed
         -12 GB GDDR5XStandard Memory Config
         -384-bitMemory Interface Width
         -480Memory Bandwidth (GB/sec)

Technology Support:
        -Simultaneous Multi-Projection
        -VR Ready
        -NVIDIA Ansel
        -SLI HB Bridge SupportedNVIDIA SLI® Ready
        -NVIDIA G-SYNC™-Ready
        -NVIDIA GameStream™-Ready
        -NVIDIA GPU Boost™ 3.0 
        -12 API with feature level 12_1
        -Microsoft DirectX
        -4.5OpenGL
        -PCIe 3.0Bus 

Support
Windows 7-10, Linux, FreeBSDx86 

Display Support:
          -7680x4320@60Hz Maximum Digital Resolution 
          -DP 1.43, HDMI 2.0b, Dual Link-DVIStandard Display Connectors
          -Multi Monitor
          -2.2HDCP

Graphics Card Dimensions:
              -4.376"Height
              -10.5"Length
              -2 SlotWidth

Thermal and Power Specs:
               -94Maximum GPU Temperature (in C)
               -250 WGraphics Card Power (W)
               -600 WRecommended System Power (W)4
               -1 8-pin and 1 6-pinSupplementary Power Connectors


1 - Windows 10 requires November 2015 update or newer. 
2 - 7680x4320 at 60Hz RGB 8-bit with dual DisplayPort connectors or 7680x4320 at 60Hz YUV420 8-bit with one DisplayPort 1.3 connector. 
3 - DisplayPort 1.2 Certified, DisplayPort 1.3/1.4 Ready. 
4 - Recommendation is made based on PC configured with an Intel Core i7 3.2 GHz processor. Pre-built system may require less power depending on system configuration.
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GOLE Media Player http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/15469/gole-media-player Thu, 04 Aug 2016 04:49:07 +0000 Vitaliy_Kiselev 15469@/talks/discussions
  • 5" 720p screen
  • Z8300 CPU with full HEVC support
  • 4GB / 64GB
  • Both Windows 10 and Android
  • $144
  • http://www.gearbest.com/tv-box-mini-pc/pp_372954.html

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    Geforce GTX 980 and 970 http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/11330/geforce-gtx-980-and-970 Fri, 19 Sep 2014 08:54:01 +0000 Vitaliy_Kiselev 11330@/talks/discussions

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    AMD Radeon Pro Solid State Graphics (SSG) http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/15423/amd-radeon-pro-solid-state-graphics-ssg Tue, 26 Jul 2016 07:21:09 +0000 Tron 15423@/talks/discussions AMD integrated M2 slots onto a new GPU design for greatly expanded memory access and improved performance. This allows an application to bypass system overhead completely for certain rendering and preview tasks.

    They demo'd a traditional high-end video editing rig that was previewing and scrubbing through 8K raw footage at 19 fps. The SSG card could accomplish the same task at 90 fps. Applications must be coded for this capability but it appears they have many professional software companies lining up to buy their dev kits and integrate the tech. Retail products will be launched in 2017.

    As part of this evening’s AMD Capsaicin event (more on that later), AMD’s Chief Architect and SVP of the Radeon Technologies Group has announced a new Radeon Pro card unlike anything else. Dubbed the Radeon Pro Solid State Graphics (SSG), this card includes M.2 slots for adding NAND SSDs, with the goal of vastly increasing the amount of local storage available to the video card.

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/10518/amd-announces-radeon-pro-ssg-polaris-with-m2-ssds-onboard

    https://amp.twimg.com/v/b080f46d-e408-4348-864e-7cc12e40d1ac

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    H265 Decoding support / Editing - GPU or CPU http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/15413/h265-decoding-support-editing-gpu-or-cpu Sun, 24 Jul 2016 06:07:25 +0000 VortekShow 15413@/talks/discussions Hey guys, quick question: I have a NX1 and playback is impossible on my xeon haswell and gtx 770 rig. What component is responsible to decode the hevc codec in a nle such as Premiere? I wondered if it would be enough to simply upgrade the gpu to avoid transcoding footage every time. Thanks

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    Blackmagic's new Arduino Shield 3G-SDI http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/15408/blackmagics-new-arduino-shield-3g-sdi Sat, 23 Jul 2016 06:19:28 +0000 samuelcabral 15408@/talks/discussions First announced at NAB back in April, Australian company Blackmagic Design released their 3G-SDI Arduino Shield yesterday. While initially targeted at the broadcast market, its price point ($95!) and the DIY ethos of Arduino make it likely that indie filmmakers will find ways to adapt the tool to their needs

    image

    http://nofilmschool.com/2016/07/black-magic-demonstrates-forward-thinking-new-arduino-shield

    Very exciting news!
    I once had a Blackmagic Pocket and it was the best looking image that i've ever worked.
    Unfortunately i've sold it because it was awful to shoot with it on the streets (doc work). Everything was so buried into the menus. Now i have a Pana G7 but would love to have a Bmmcc with a controller to change ISO, Aperture, shutter etc... on the fly.

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1247782-REG/blackmagic_design_cinstudxurdo_3g_3g_sdi_arduino_shield.html

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    is gtx980 not supported by Premiere pro CC ? http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/15392/is-gtx980-not-supported-by-premiere-pro-cc- Wed, 20 Jul 2016 04:44:46 +0000 sergeiicz 15392@/talks/discussions Hello, during rendering with gpu-related efects (procamp, lumetri, MB looks,...) GPU is idle 0-20% of load when CPU is running all at 100% load all the time. Is that caused by non-official cuda support for gtx980 in PPCC ? Last PPCC 2015.3, fresh drivers on GPU and MOBO and of course CUDA Playback/render activated I am actually thinking about buying one gtx780ti for cuda work Thank you

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    4K capture via USB http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/15358/4k-capture-via-usb- Thu, 14 Jul 2016 02:17:46 +0000 MikeLinn 15358@/talks/discussions

    Sadly not cheap.

    https://www.amazon.com/AV-io-4K-video-capture-1080p/dp/B01H3Y3IL8/

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    will iMac 27" handle 4k red raw editing ? http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/15347/will-imac-27-handle-4k-red-raw-editing- Tue, 12 Jul 2016 03:59:19 +0000 sergeiicz 15347@/talks/discussions iMac could be: 27" iMac Retina 5K 4,0GHz Intel Core i7, Turbo Boost 4,2 GHz 8 GB 1867MHz DDR3 SDRAM + 32gb 3rd party modules 256GB flash drive AMD Radeon R9 M395X 4GB

    will this setup handle raw (red raw from scarlet-x) edit and full res playback in premiere pro cc or fcpx ? anybody using same or similiar setup ?

    thank you

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    Aten VanCryst VE809: ultra affordable HDMI wireless?! http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/15329/aten-vancryst-ve809-ultra-affordable-hdmi-wireless- Thu, 07 Jul 2016 23:11:43 +0000 IronFilm 15329@/talks/discussions Just got an email from my local major chain of computer stores about this interesting looking device (is going to be going on sale for only NZ$309+gst, or about US$200ish):

    http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?z=p&p=KVMATN0809&utm_source=WatchListenPlay0708&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Retail&utm_content=0709_watch-listen-play-A_37&qr=ec_0709_watch-listen-play-A_37

    https://www.amazon.com/Aten-VE809-HDMI-Wireless-Extender/dp/B00B7FSDLA

    Is meant to do 1080 at up to 30m!

    Can be DC powered (and even USB powered perhaps?).

    http://www.aten.com/global/en/products/professional-audiovideo/wireless/ve809/#.V38x0bh97RY

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    Good (not to expensive) aktive USB 3.0 hub http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/15239/good-not-to-expensive-aktive-usb-3.0-hub Sat, 18 Jun 2016 18:48:10 +0000 Psyco 15239@/talks/discussions I'm looking for a good aktive USB 3.0 hub:

    • I need it to have 7+ USB ports, a strong power supply (must be able to drive 2 HHDs and keyboard/mouse), be reliable, compatible with USB 2.0 (also on the computer side) and all USB devices.

    • It would be nice if it can be wall mounted (I want to put it on the lower side of my desktop), the power supply is internal (or at least small), the USB ports are not all on one side, an on/off switch and a status LED (not 20 flashing LEDs, just one;-).

    Especially for Mac users it looks like a hub with the VIA VL812-B2 is needed to be 100% compatible (the older VL812 might be ok too). It also seems that most of the USB hubs are just rebranded cheap generic boxes as you can find so many (visually) identical hubs with different brand names on it.

    Some examples:

    A bit too expensive and old chipset, but nice housing: https://www.amazon.co.uk/LINDY-USB-Industrial-Port-Metal/dp/B00DE5YARW/

    Also too expensive and does not work with HDDs when using a Mac(!): https://www.amazon.de/EXSYS-EX-1188HMS-Netzwerk-Hub-7-Port-USB/dp/B00B01AMPQ/

    Plastic, no mount, but cheap, new chipset and 2 ports on top with extra power: https://www.amazon.co.uk/ClimaxDigital-CHUB307-Charging-Adapter-Warranty/dp/B00EWO1KE0/ (This one looks quite good, but I haven't found it anywhere in Germany with the correct power plug.)

    It seems quite hard to finde a good USB 3.0 hub, so any input/help/experience is highly appreciated.

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    4k editing laptop on a budget http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/15069/4k-editing-laptop-on-a-budget- Wed, 11 May 2016 22:33:48 +0000 AlexOh 15069@/talks/discussions I'd appreciate it if someone could recommend a laptop with great value for editing 4k footage.

    To be specific my rig is a Panasonic G7 and a Yuneec Typhoon, so it's not the highest bit rate for 4k.

    What I'd like to do is basic cutting, grading, and titles. Occasionally I'll do a bit of composting. I'll be doing most of this in Blender for Linux or Windows, but I'd also like to use Adobe products from time to time.

    I've read the system requirements for the programs, and a bunch of posts by different people, but for my objectives I haven't been able to nail down what the most important factors are.

    I understand that the main factors are processor speed, number of cores, RAM, graphics card speed, graphics RAM and system memory (HD vs SSHD)

    I'd like to stay below $700 if possible. New, used or refurbished is fine. I'd also like reasonable render times. I don't expect anywhere near real time, but I'd like for it to be manageable.

    If you have any great experience or awful experience editing on such a machine please share it. I have a bunch of conflicting information. What's really most important? Should I be most concerned with cpu speed, graphics card or memory?

    Am I just dreaming, or do you think it's possible?

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    Anti-glare, non-reflective ipad mini screen protector http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/15084/anti-glare-non-reflective-ipad-mini-screen-protector Tue, 17 May 2016 09:26:24 +0000 mrbill 15084@/talks/discussions I'm starting to do a fair bit of aerial filming, and use an ipad mini with my P3P drone. I have a sun hood for the ipad, and a so-called glare reducing screen protector, but on a sunny day I'm still flying nearly blind. Any body found a glare-reducing screen protector that actually works?

    Thanks

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    Cheap 11.6" laptop suggestions? http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/14834/cheap-11.6-laptop-suggestions Sun, 20 Mar 2016 01:47:36 +0000 brianl 14834@/talks/discussions I looked at a Lenovo 100 series with windows for $140 at Best Buy today. Feature set was great but cursor tracking was sticky and jittery. worst of all the screen colors didn't pop. Dull screen. Any suggestions? hopefully under 3lbs. Open to chromebooks. Need it for surfing and hopefully something I can plug an external drive into and view photos and video files. Thanks

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    tablet advice http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/14853/tablet-advice Tue, 22 Mar 2016 21:47:48 +0000 jclmedia 14853@/talks/discussions Im lookin at tablet to play hd and 4k video ect and be used for storage, i want somthing with 9" or bigger screen.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/ONDA-V989-AIR-9-7-2K-Android-4-4-OCTACORE-2Ghz-RAM-2-16GB-Tablet-PC-USA-SALE-/291694390208?hash=item43ea572bc0:g:OU0AAOSwuAVW0GNb

    looking at that one,

    and the asus transformer but it doesnt even have hd res.. frown.gif

    any advice?

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    Philips 27" IPS Monitor with AdoveRGB coverage http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/14804/philips-27-ips-monitor-with-adovergb-coverage Wed, 16 Mar 2016 18:44:03 +0000 Vitaliy_Kiselev 14804@/talks/discussions image

    • 27" Class IPS Quantum Dot Technology / Adobe RGB 99% LED Monitor (27" Viewable)
    • Full HD 1920 x 1080 resolution
    • 16:9 Aspect Ratio w/ color support of 16.7 Million Colors
    • Brightness - 300 cd/m2, Dynamic Contrast Ratio - 20,000,000:1, Response Time - 5ms
    • Connectivity - VGA, DVI, HDMI w/MHL, Audio In/Out
    • $299 only

    http://www.amazon.com/Philips-276E6ADSS-27-Inch-Technology-1080Resolution/dp/B01BMB3FCK

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    Convergent Design Apollo switcher http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/14291/convergent-design-apollo-switcher- Sun, 27 Dec 2015 18:37:20 +0000 Vitaliy_Kiselev 14291@/talks/discussions

    Work as firmware update for Odyssey 7Q/7Q+ also

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    5K monitors topic http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/12146/5k-monitors-topic Sat, 10 Jan 2015 14:29:17 +0000 Vitaliy_Kiselev 12146@/talks/discussions Know monitors:

    image

    • Dell UltraSharp UP2715K, 27" inch screen, 5120 x 2880 resolution and 218 ppi. Uses double DisplayPort 1.2 input. Dell UltraSharp UP2715K cost is around $1500 and it is already available.

    • The VP2785-5K is ViewSonic's first 5K monitor. It's 27-inch screen delivers 5120x2880 resolution, and covers 99% of the Adobe RGB color space, making it suitable for demanding graphics and design applications.

    .image

    • HP Z27q. Uses IPS panel with 300nit brightness, 1,07 billions of colors. Calibrated modes sRGB, Adobe RGB and BT.709. HP Z27q has two DisplayPort inputs. USB 3.0 hub with 5 USB ports. Will be available in match. Price will be $1300
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    Atomos Shogun Studio http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/14657/atomos-shogun-studio- Fri, 26 Feb 2016 22:04:15 +0000 Vitaliy_Kiselev 14657@/talks/discussions

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